Problems with a Global Flood

Mark Isaak
(isaak@aurora.com)


An e-mail comment on Noah's Ark near end of this page

Interesting numbers about the Global Flood by Dave B. at end of this page

See more questions about the flood by clicking here.


Creationist models are often criticized for being too vague to have any predictive value. A literal interpretation of the Flood story in Genesis, however, does imply certain physical consequences which can be tested against what we actually observe. Most, if not all, observations, discredit the flood hypothesis, as you can see from what follows. (Most the the arguments below are based only on a literal reading of Genesis, but some specifically refer to the flood model of Whitcomb & Morris [1961].) Can any Creationists address even half of the points in this list?

Before the flood:


Life on the ark:

The flood:

Geological effects of the flood:

Biological effects of the flood:

Historical effects of the flood:

Aftermath of the flood:

Is the flood model consistent with the Bible?


References

(My thanks to R. Andrew MacRae for supplying most of these references.)

Bignot, G., 1985. Micropaleontology Boston: IHRDC, p. 75

Clemmenson, L.B. and Abrahamsen, K., 1983. Aeolian stratification in desert sediments, Arran basin (Permian), Scotland. Sedimentology, v.30, p.311-339.

Cristie, R.L., and McMillan, N.J. (eds.), 1991. Tertiary fossil forests of the Geodetic Hills, Axel Heiberg Island, Arctic Archipelago, Geological Survey of Canada, Bulletin 403., 227pp.

Dawson, J.W., 1868. Acadian Geology. The Geological Structure, Organic Remains, and Mineral Resources of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island, 2nd edition. MacMillan and Co.: London, 694pp.

Donohoe, H.V. Jr. and Grantham, R.G. (eds.), 1989. Geological Highway Map of Nova Scotia, 2nd edition. Atlantic Geoscience Society, Halifax, Nova Scotia. AGS Special Publication no. 1, 1:640 000.

Dundes, Alan (ed.), 1988. The Flood Myth, University of California Press, Berkeley and London.

Eyles, N. and Miall, A.D., 1984, Glacial Facies IN: Walker, R.G., Facies Models, Second Edition. Geoscience Canada, Reprint Series 1, p.15-38.

Fezer, Karl D., 1993. "Creationism: Please Don't Call It Science" Creation/Evolution, 13:1 (Summer 1993), 45-49.

Ferguson, Laing, 1988. The Fossil Cliffs of Joggins. Nova Scotia Museum, Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Gansser, A., 1964. Geology of the Himalayas, John Wiley and Sons, Ltd., New York, 289pp.

Gastaldo, R. A., 1990, Early Pennsylvanian swamp forests in the Mary Lee coal zone, Warrior Basin, Alabama. in R. A. Gastaldo et. al., Carboniferous Coastal Environments and Paleocommunities of the Mary Lee Coal Zone, Marion and Walker Counties, Alabama. Guidebook for the Field Trip VI, Alabama Geological Survey, Tuscaloosa, Alabama. pp. 41-54.

Genesis 6:9-8:22.

Gilette, D.D. and Lockley, M.G. (eds.), 1989. Dinosaur Tracks and Traces, Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 454pp.

Gore, Rick, 1993. "Dinosaurs" National Geographic, 183:1 (Jan. 1993), 2-54.

Hubert, J.F., and Mertz, K.A., Jr., 1984. Eolian sandstones in Upper Triassic-Lower Jurassic red beds of the Fundy Basin, Nova Scotia. Journal of Sedimentary Petrology, v.54, p.798-810.

Jackson, M.P.A., et al., 1990. Salt diapirs of the Great Kavir, Central Iran. Geological Society of America, Memoir 177, 139pp.

Kent and Olsen, 1992. (Columbia University Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory) Discover, Jan. 1992

Kocurek, G., and Dott, R.H., 1981. Distinctions and uses of stratification types in the interpretation of eolian sand. Journal of Sedimentary Petrology, v.51, no.2, p.579-595.

May, Robert M., 1992. "How Many Species Inhabit the Earth?" Scientific American, 267:4 (Oct. 1992), 42-49.

Moore, Robert A., 1983. "The Impossible Voyage of Noah's Ark" Creation/Evolution, #11 (Winter 1983), 1-43. The entire issue is about the ark. Moore lists over one hundred references.

Moore, James R., 1973. "Charles Lyell and the Noachian Deluge", in Dundes, The Flood Myth, 1988.

Morris, John D., 1993. "Did dinosaurs survive the flood?" Back to Genesis, #53 (May 1993), d.

Reinhardt, J., and Sigleo, W.R. (eds.), 1989. Paleosols and weathering through geologic time: principles and applications. Geological Society of America Special Paper 216, 181pp.

Short, D. A., J. G. Mengel, T. J. Crowley, W. T. Hyde and G. R. North, 1991. Filtering of Milankovitch Cycles by Earth's Geography. Quaternary Research. 35, 157-173. (Re an independent method of dating the Green River formation)

Simberloff, David, 1988. The Contribution of Population and Community Biology to Conservation Science. Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics, 19, 473-511.

Stewart, W.N., 1983. Paleontology and the Evolution of Plants. Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, 405pp.

Tarnocai, C. and Smith, C.A.S., 1991. Paleosols of the Fossil Forest area, Axel Heiberg Island. IN: Cristie & McMillan [see above], p.171-187.

Twenhofel, William H., 1961. Treatise on Sedimentation, Dover, p. 50-52.

Whitcomb, John C. and Morris, Henry M., 1961. The Genesis Flood, Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., Philadelphia.

Wright, V. P., 1994. Paleosols in shallow marine sequences. Earth-Science Reviews, 37, 367-395. See also pp. 135-137.

Young, Davis, 1988. Christianity and the Age of the Earth. Artisan Sales, Thousand Oaks, CA.

Yun, Zhang, 1989. "Multicellular thallophytes with differentiated tissues from Late Proterozoic phosphate rocks of South China" Lethaia, #22, 113-132.

Yuretich, Richard F., 1984. Yellowstone fossil forests: New evidence for burial in place, Geology 12, 159-162. See also Fritz, W.J. & Yuretich, R.F., Comment and reply, Geology 20, 638-639.

Noah's Ark myth like Loch Ness monster -scientist


Brian D. e-mail -- article on Noah's ark

Brian belongs to the Catholic Faith:

SYDNEY, Australia (Reuter) - An archeological site believed by some Christians to contain Noah's Ark was being used as Turkey's equivalent of the Loch Ness monster to raise research funds, a Sydney court was told Thursday.

Australian geology professor Ian Plimer said the site on Mount Ararat, which he believes is nothing more than a large mound of mud, was being used as an ``income-generating mechanism'' by the Turkish geologist in charge of the site.

``I am sympathetic to the financial position he is in, but I am certainly not sympathetic to the scientific fraud,'' Plimer told the Federal Court of Australia.

After visiting the Turkish site in 1994, Plimer said he challenged the site project leader about its authenticity. According to the Bible, Noah built the Ark to rescue his family and animals from a 40-day flood called down by a wrathful God.

``He said he was using this site to raise funds from Christian fundamentalists. He said he doesn't believe in Noah's Ark and that this is his equivalent of Loch Ness,'' Plimer said referring to the mythical Scottish lake monster.

``He has supported the views of various Christian fundamentalists that yes, this is the site of Noah's Ark. As scientist to scientist, in essence he apologized and said to me, 'Sorry, this is the only way I can fund my research'.''

Plimer and U.S. marine salvage expert David Fasold are suing creationist Allen Roberts for ``misleading and deceptive conduct'' in Australian lectures on his explorations of the Turkish site.

Creationists believe the world was created over six days, as in the Book of Genesis, some 6,000 to 10,000 years ago.

The protagonists say the trial is not about the Biblical story of creation, but fair trading laws -- although many in the court including the judge see a battle between science and creationism just below the surface.

Roberts, held hostage for three weeks by Kurdish separatists in 1991 after visiting the Turkish site, does not say he believes the Turkish site is Noah's Ark.

``If this is not Noah's Ark, then what is it?'' Roberts would ask in concluding his lectures.

Plimer said he had found a golf tee and bits of plastic at the Turkish site, adding: ``If Noah's Ark was 4,000 years old, the ancient game from St Andrews would not yet have been around.''

REUTER


By Dean -- I couldn't resist adding this:

I have a humorous verse in the Bible. I don't know whether it is on your web page or not.

Q: If God is for us, who can be against us?

A: People with Iron Chariots (~Judges 1:19)


Interesting numbers:

Another problem I see with the Global Flood is that with Mt. Everest being 29,035 feet (8,850 m) above sea level, it would have to rain on the entire globe an average of about 6 inches (15.2 cm) per minute for 40 days and 40 nights.  The recorded world record for rainfall in one minute is 1.5 inches (3.8 cm)  - -and it occurred at one remote location, not globally, and only for that one minute, not at a constant rate for an extended period of time.  According to Genesis 7:20, all the earth was covered by 15 cubits which would equate to about 25 feet (7.6 m).  So, with Mt. Everest being the highest point in the world, that would equate to 29,060 feet (8,860 m) of water above sea level.  Anyone familiar with SCUBA diving knows that ocean water pressure at 33 feet (10 m) equals one atmosphere of air on earth.  Fresh water is 34 feet per atmosphere, so we're not talking about a big difference either way.  At 33 feet of water per atmosphere, if we are under 29,060 feet (8,860 m) of water in the form of vapor in the air before the rain began, this would equate to air pressure at the earth's surface of approximately 12,775 psi as compared to the actual earth surface air pressure of a mere 14.5 psi.  (29,060 divided by 33 equals about 881.  14.5 psi times 881 equals about 12,775 psi.)  It would be impossible for anything to live under these conditions in that not only would the air pressure be too great, but as a result of such intense pressure, the ambient temperature at the earth's surface would be unbearably hot.  And we're not talking triple digits hot; we're probably talking quintuple digits hot.  Anyone with an elementary level of knowledge in physics knows that as a gas expands under reduced pressure, its temperature decreases, and as a gas contracts under increased pressure, its temperature increases.  This is the primary reason why air at the earth's surface at higher elevations is generally cooler than that of lower elevations at the same latitude.  Therefore, in order believe that such a flood actually happened, you would have to believe in an awful lot of magic.  It never ceases to amaze me the things that grown people will believe!

Thanks.

Dave B.

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