"When missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. 
They said, 'Let us pray'. We closed our eyes. 
When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land."

Interesting comment on the effectiveness of prayer :-) by Bishop Tutu of South Africa.

Good Morning M,
Interesting comments you made about prayer.

>On prayer -
>A good passage to read on prayer and deeds is Matthew 6. Again you seem to
>have taken
>selected verses in juxtapose without taking the full meaning of the passage.
>
>He was specific about who He
>was talking to - exactly as it is written - the Scribes and Pharisees. The
>customs of the day lead them to stand on the corners and work up their
>points for piety in the public forum

The biblical validity of my page on Prayer still holds when taken in the biblical context.

My bible says

Mt 65 ¶ And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are] for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

You are right here. It says you must definitely not pray as the hypocrites pray.

Continuing

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do] for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Here Jesus says when thou prayest, you must pray this way

(1) enter into thy closet.

(2) shut the door.

(3) pray to thy Father which is in secret.

(4) use not vain repetitions.

To me this is clearly spoken. To me, praying secretly in a room with the door closed is the opposite of public prayer. Jesus is very definite on this in the words of these verses. The 'thou' would refer to all Jesus Followers, including leaders.

>As for Jesus, in this same passage of Matthew, Jesus said to pray in this
>manner "Our Father.....give us.....forgive us....lead us..." Note the
>plural - a prayer obviously encouraged in the company of more than one
>person.

8 Be not ye therefore like unto them for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

9 ¶ After this manner therefore pray ye Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

etc.

If these verses mean prayer that is NOT done in a closet in secret, then it contradicts the earlier verses. If verses 5, 6 and 7 are to be obeyed, then the plural in these verses means the secret prayer is to a common Father. It does not mean plural in the sense of public prayer.

Looking at the other verses such as

Mt 61 ¶ Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest [thine] alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth

4 That thine alms may be in secret and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

==================================

18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Chapter 6 abounds in NOT doing things in public, but in private.

Jesus plainly and definitely states that prayer must be in private - that public prayer is wrong.

One additional thing about prayer

Of all the so called Christian denominations one group that seems to come the closest to being true followers of Jesus in prayer are the original Quakers. In the Quaker groups all prayer was private, not public.

When I come across someone publicly praying at a gathering I conclude that he is not a follower of Jesus. He is obviously not even trying to follow Jesus' admonition in this -- in such a simple matter that he could so easily do. The Jesus he is following is an imposter, not the Jesus described in the bible. I would advise against anyone listening to him as a representative of Jesus of the Bible.

Hope this clarifies the issue of private verses public prayer for any Jesus Worshipper. An attribute of a true Christian is that he only prays in private, never in public.

Thanks for your lengthy comments,

Hooge