This is an list of the tolerably good YANIs I've seen posted or had myself. I've edited down the original posts. Theory: most YANIs add challenge, depth of play, or both. Adding challenge makes the game harder. Adding to the depth of play makes the game easier for spoiled players. 1. Tradeoffs and game variability 2. User interface issues 2.1 "[y/n]" considered harmful. 2.2 De-irkification 3. Make alignments meaningful 4. FASThack 5. Cameras 6. Boots of Burden 7. Depth and Challenge 8. Tourists start with souvenirs 9. Squabble patch 10. Tone down speed 11. Construction patch 11.1 NPC dwarves construction 12. Learning spells as a wizard. 13. YANIs from Timo Viitanen 14. Celery 15. Attacking Famine with food 16. Gloves of skill 17. Assorted YAFMs 18. Appearance-related armor attributes 19. Totemic animals 20. Monster errors 21. Minor talents 22. ESP on soul, not minds 1. Tradeoffs and game variability From: Rob Ellwood (rob.ellwood@home.com) I believe that a lot of the fun of NetHack comes from the complexity. And that one way of increasing the complexity is to add tradeoffs. 1) Make the cold and fire resistance intrinsics mutually exclusive. If you gain one, you lose the other. Implications: - Rings of cold and fire resistance (which give EXtrinsics) are suddenly valuable to your high-level characters. At the same time, you hit a tradeoff: which of your current favorite rings do you give up? Or do you want to rely on swapping rings and NOT being zapped by something lurking in the dark? - Red and white dragon scale mail now have some value. - You'll want fire resistance in hell, so don't eat any winter wolves there. And watch out for the ice devils! 2) Decrease the AC for gray and silver dragon scale mail. Yes, you can get armor with built-in protection. No, it doesn't come free. This puts red and white DSM back in the running! Ideally, the choice of DSM should be a difficult one, with the best choice depending upon your circumstances. "Always wish for the SDSM" would be replaced by judgement and experience: "Let's see: as a beginning character, I'm unlikely to live to see hell, so red DSM is less valuable than normal. I'm unlikely to need reflection to save my life for quite a few levels, which makes SDSM less valuable. GDSM would help against those polymorph traps in the lower mines. But white DSM is better armor and gives me cold resistance. It looks like a tossup between white and gray." It would be nice to have more than a four-way selection. Give the other DSMs 1 or 2 points more AC. Or let them be enchanted to higher ACs. 3) Fire Brand makes you fire resistant, but you take quadruple (!) damage from cold. Cold resistance cuts that back to triple damage. Note the unpleasant tradeoff with Frost Brand in hell: you can do double damage to most devils, but it's gonna hurt. Even if you drag along a second weapon, you will sometimes get toasted. And, for low level characters, both swords become mixed blessings. Walking into a blue jelly with Fire Brand would be insta-death. 4) The god-granted Mojo takes constant divine attention to power. Therefore, wielding it constantly resets your prayer timeout: "You are already receiving My assistance, and you dare beg for more?!" If you get food poisoning, just unwield Mojo and wait a few hundred turns. No problem! Here, gaining a superb weapon means losing the prayer "get out of jail free" card. (Dylan O'Donnell: "Since you can't pray in Gehennom anyway, this is no disincentive to wielding it there.") 5) The only magic shield gives reflection. Reflection is good to have, so there is a tradeoff: one-handed weapons do less damage. SDSM destroyed that tradeoff. Can anyone think of a unique property for a new type of magic shield? Some- thing giving a reasonable tradeoff? (Dylan O'Donnell: "Not _unique_, but stoning resistance would be themely for a shield. Probably should be a "stone shield" that's very heavy, though, for balance.") GAME VARIABILITY Another way to improve NetHack is to make it more variable from game to game. Possible changes: 1) Vary artifact properties from game to game. When Mojo is created, the shock damage is set to anything from 1-6 to 1-24. You don't know if Mojo is better than Cleaver or not. You can stick with the first artifact weapon you get, or use a stethoscope to see how much damage it's doing. (This also attacks the no-brainer aspect of the top artifact weapons.) 2) In 10% of the games, have gremlins steal intrinsics all day, not just at the witching hour. I recently saw a huge swarm of gremlins on the castle level via ESP. I ignored them: they were too small to need swatting. Under Variable NetHack, I would have been sweating blood. 3) Add "themes". Each game gets a random theme potion, theme wand, and theme scroll. 10% of all objects are generated as the theme object. Your theme objects strongly affect the "flavor" of each game. With luck, your theme potion is Gain Level. Without luck, your theme wand is Nothing. Have theme low, middle, and high-level monsters. If your theme high-level monster is "black dragon", your game might be cut short. Even if your theme mid-level monster was "nurse". 90% of the time, the nymph theme potion is Object Detection. Hope it never turns out to be Invisibility. (Dylan O'Donnell: "Bleah. Could be extremely imbalanced. ... Now, varying it so that you had potion-heavy games, or wand-heavy games - that could be interesting. 'A dozen wands of lightning, but no scrolls of identify!'") 4) Put a magic portal on the level below the quest level. It sends you to a random quest level for a different character type. Most of the quest levels are a lot more interesting than the standard dungeon levels. I would welcome the variety. And some levels have nice loot: the Tourist's shops; the Valkyrie's giants. I would be inclined to leave off the first and final quest levels. The first level has little of interest except the quest leader; the final level centers around the quest nemesis. (Or connect to all 5-6 quest levels, in which case make the first level diggable, dump the quest nemesis & arti- fact, and give the quest leader insults for this unwelcome competitor for the Amulet.) REMARKS ON EXISTING TRADEOFFS 1) In my opinion, silver and gray DSM are too good. If the optimum Ascension Kit is a no-brainer, there's no need for thought. SDSM + cloak of MR + amulet of LS, anyone? You get the three main protections against rays, magic, and YASD. And both hands are free. I think it would be better if choosing the best Ascension Kit was a complicated maze of decisions, with each decision depending upon both your circumstances and the other decisions you have made. This is why I proposed changing the DSM benefits. 2) The weapon / magic skill system improves NetHack. In some cases, I will refrain from advancing a skill because the skill point is better spent on the weapon I'm now trying to find. I will be more effective later by being less effective now: a tradeoff. 3) The tradeoff of two-handed weapons vs shield of reflection was a good one. But SDSM has largely eliminated it. 4) The #twoweapon bug damaged a tradeoff. Pick one: a shield, or double damage. 5) DSM armor is lighter AND better armor than mithril: a no-brainer. I think that this is OK: it's hard for low level characters to get, and high level characters have a lot of toys to carry. I think that becoming burdened should be a concern for characters at all stages of the game. Iron, mithril, and DSM are progressively lighter. (DSM should be a bit heavier. My high-level characters rarely find weight a problem.) 6) Someone once asked if his new character should wear plate mail, even though it burdened him. I threw some assumptions in the air. A monster would get more attacks on him before it died, but fewer attacks would get through. It was a wash. My damage guesstimates said that there was no reason to prefer plate mail over bare skin. ...but, burdened, he would be slower than rothes. Overall, plate mail was worse than bare skin. This is why I like tradeoffs. If you think, you can spot ways to give yourself an edge or avoid YASD. 2. User interface issues 2.1 "[y/n]" considered harmful. "Paul C. Bischof" wrote: (under "AAAAAARGH!!!! YA_V_SM!") > > [Snip sad tale of angering the quest leader by a)pplying > a wand when it was in the key's normal inventory slot.] I'm an engineer. I support control room operators. Errors can cost millions. I got interested in human error rates and how to reduce them. Universal confirmations are worthless. For experienced users, the error rate is the same as for no confirmations. The error rate is lower when confirmations only exist for a few dangerous commands. When every (picking of a lock / application of a wand / rattling of a chain / whatever) asks "pick the lock? [y/n]", you stop reading the confirmation prompt. Instead, you mentally combine all the required keystrokes into one command. Opening a chest is "k.y", and you type it in within a fraction of a second. This works over 99% of the time, but has unfortunate consequences when your normal inventory letters are jumbled and you're beside your quest leader. Other examples: o I once broke a wand of cancellation in Vlad's tower. I was so disgusted, I #quit. o I've seen a few postings about unfortunate items being in the "y" inventory slot. IIRC, someone even ate a cockatrice. Well, one bite, anyway. (If Hearse gives you the bones file, you can tuck in to what's left.) Ideally, only exceptional cases have confirmations (e.g.: breaking a wand.) That way, confirmations are un- usual; you actually pause and READ them. You certainly pause if the command you *thought* you entered never needs to be confirmed. This started with a lockpick. As an example, I'll show how lockpicks can have fewer confirmations: o Describe containers as being locked or not: "You see here an unlocked chest." (I mildly dislike this. How do you know? Stupid rationalization: they have visible padlocks.) o When a lockpick is applied: - Count the number of locks within reach. - If there's just one, unlock it if locked & v.v. - If there's more than one, ask [y/n] for each lock. This eliminates 90+% of the lockpicking confirmations. It eliminates even more of the "oops, not a lockpick" errors, since the "[y/n]" will often be unexpected and players will sometimes read the message before hitting "y". The biggest flaw is that people will sometimes lock doors that are already unlocked. This will usually just mean applying the lockpick a second time. (Fix: have different symbols for locked and unlocked doors. Shrug.) As a side benefit, fewer confirmations means fewer keystrokes. The game goes a bit faster. From: artc (artc@execpc.com) Message 6 in thread I'm a software engineer myself. Confirmations have repeatedly saved me from causing myself damage, even in areas in which I'm quite experienced. I'm happy to have the computer ask me for confirmation before I do something stupid. Nethack's y/n confirmations are poorly designed. First, sometimes the "yes" question is the safe option, sometimes it's not. ("Continue eating?" Klunk.) Second, the "y" character is a movement direction. More than once I've died as a result of typeahead on a slow connection. Half-a-dozen years ago, I modified a copy of the nethack source to require _capital_ Y/N answers, reducing the problem of the typeahead. I'd like to see this in the actual code. 2.2 De-irkification Summary: remove trash messages. Plane of fire: one message when entering, mentioning blasts of flame shooting up as monsters move around, then *no more at all*. (Or was the plane of fire fixed in 3.4.0?) When a monster with X attacks misses wildly, there is no need to say the same thing X times. (See the "wildmiss" routine.) "There is a broken door here": pointless; remove. If it's really *that* critical to say where the "create door" spell can be used, make it able to create doors on any rock square. Heck, water too: bridge building abilities would actually make it *useful*. "It misses it": remove all messages about monster-thrown projectiles or wand shots missing monsters. They are inherited from D&D, where the DM had to explicitly roll dice for all of these cases, and he would automatically report the results. zap.c: blank out the "miss" routine? No, that's too extreme: it's probably used for "misses you", too. Blank out most uses. Copy-and-paste from my de-irk notes: > I started by grabbing a copy of Teppic's Auto Open patch: >walking into a closed door opens it. This patch is great. >Thank you, Teppic. > > Message repeat timeout for pushing boulders increased >from 2 game turns to 200. (The only purpose of this message >is to hint to new players that boulder pushing is exercise. >I would kill it completely, except for the chance that the >Dev Team will include this patch in a later release.) > > Ditto the timeout for digging's "with all your might" >message. When you walk over a pile of objects, 2-5 objects are shown to you in a list, and you have to acknowledge the --more-- to escape. This halts DOS players dead in their tracks. I posted how to fix this in the newsgroup, and it should be included in the de-irkification patch. Better would be to list all the symbols for objects in the stack. I started work on that, but got lost in the code. if "eck, poison!", do not say "tastes terrible". Improve the pair of messages about "trap door in the ceiling opens and a rock falls on your head!" + results. "A falling rock trap!" + "Ouch!" or "Clang!". The silly message you get when an armoured monk attacks is pretty exasperating. If you're blind and a monster's attack misses, you don't get a message. (And shouldn't stop what you're doing.) mthrowu.c if(u.uac + tlev <= rnd(20)) { if(Blind || !flags.verbose) pline("It misses."); else You("are almost hit by %s.", onm); no message if blind. Movement via "_" should ignore peacefuls & parked monsters, traps, and newly discovered doors. "Throw three daggers": who cares? Fix. 3. Make alignments meaningful Google for messages titled "alignment system with teeth". Summary: track Positive Alignment Points and Negative Alignment Points separately. When it's time for an alignment check, look at the *ratio*. If you do not have at least, say, 50 Positive Points for every Negative Point, you aren't aligned enough. 4. FASThack Subject: Re: Gehennom wraiths and Nornbashing Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:39:42 -0600 From: Rob Ellwood Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack Rast wrote: > > [9 levels for Gehennom.] Why stop there? FASThack: a version of Nethack you can finish in two hours. Level Description ------------------- 1 Three squares: a staircase up, a staircase down, and a heap of semi-useful semi-random stuff to get you started. 2-3 Two squares, for stairs up and down. (I need blank levels to increase the level numbers, or the toughest monster in Gehennom will be a winter wolf.) 4 One of the "rnd1" levels. 5 A random mines level. 6 Minetown. 7 A random mines level. 8 Mine end, with a staircase down. 9-11 Blank levels. 12 A normal level, with a branch to the quest. Quest 1: contains the bell of opening, your quest artifact, and your quest nemesis. 12-17 Blank levels; 1 chest per. 18 Medusa. 19 Castle. 20 Valley of the Dead. 21 Orcus level (for the shops). 22 A maze level, with stairs up to Vlad's tower. Vlad 1: the final Vlad level. 23 A room with Rodney and the book. 24 Vibrating square. 25 Sanctum. The planes stay the same. Balancing this mess would take work. You might have to give out potions of gain level and healing, especially at the start. And maybe have a stack of blessed scrolls of identify in the Sanctum, to simplify life as far as possible. All of this is possible with the normal level building tools: no code changes at all. Download the FASThack "nhdat" file and you're there. [FASThack refinements: remove the elemental planes after all. Put the entrance to Vlad's tower on the Orcus level. Leave the first five levels unchanged.] D o'D wrote: > > ...you'll still need to define the dungeons you're not using, > otherwise dname_to_dnum() will panic. > So the functions In_quest(), In_mines(), In_sokoban(), and > In_V_tower() will work. Various bits of code want to check whether > you're in those branches at certain times to do certain things > differently there. 5. Cameras From: Aaron (aaron@iphc.washington.edu) In article <877no2$s6n$1@xs4.xs4all.nl>, sotty@xs4.xs4all.nl says... > >Aaron wrote: >>At least until they make a camera actually take photographs, >>and give you a list when you're done. > >Keeping a record of photographs would definitely be a nice feature, but >I'd like to see it done a bit differently. > >1. A picture of a newt. >2. A picture of a corpse of a newt, a dart and an approaching kobold. >3. A picture of a blind kobold. >4. A picture of your pet little kitten Mittens, eating. >[...] >45. A picture of a peaceful forest centaur, a chest and the fleeing > Croesus. >46. A picture of an approaching shopkeeper named Pakka Pakka. >47. A picture of a dungeon wall. >48. A picture of an altar to Blind Io, with the corpse of a soldier ant on > it. > >Needless to say, this would be a bit harder to code. Well, the tricky bits would be constructing the descriptive 'phrase' for each picture. Though some leeway could be taken. For instance... you a)pply your camera in a direction. The computer keeps track of each item it passes over until the beam stops. Then you'd need a way to describe these things it sees, without being too boringly repetative. Though a 'random group of selectable phrases' might work. For instance, the final 'target creature' would check some variables. Confused, blind, stunned and fleeing: "a blind newt, a fleeing newt" Or combinations: "a blind and confused newt, a fleeing blind newt" See if its hostile to you: "an attacking newt" Or perhaps a wielded weapon/armour? "a hill orc with a scimitar" Or combined with the above: "an attacking blind newt" "a confused hill orc with a scimitar" And of course a table of 'alternates' that can be randomly chosen: attacking, blood-thirsty, angry, approaching blind, sightless fleeing, retreating etc. (oh, and *all* V's and invisible creatures would be treated as no creature, for the photograph's sake.) Hmm. and perhaps nymph pictures could get special treatment (posing for the camera, showing a shapely leg, bosum's heaving) Oh, and flashing someone through a boulder should give only as far as the boulder) Add on slight content modifiers based on the players status (ie: blind/confused/hallucinating/stunned) "a fuzzy picture of a newt, out of focus picture of a newt, a picture of a newt's foot, a picture of your thumb" (or just use generic 'letter class' descriptions of out of focus things (just say orc, even if it was a mordor orc)) So not too hard coming up with a short descriptive phrase of the monster flashed... It's the objects in between that make things more difficult. Imagine a pile of 50 things. Certainly you can just put in 'pile of loot'... but then you have to start figuring out where to draw the line, else the descriptions can get really long. Easier just to assume all pictures are 'portraits' and just describing the monster flashed... (though perhaps still using some of the above guidelines) "a picture of the confused wizard of Yendor." "an out of focus picture of an attacking wumpus." "a picture of a sleeping nymph, with lots of cleavage." "a picture of an angry orc captain, wielding a scimitar." "a picture of a fleeing leprechaun." "a fuzzy picture of something that looks like a pudding." and 23 pictures of your thumb. Grin. Doubt we'll ever see it, but its fun to ponder. From: Patrick Scheele (sotty@xs4.xs4all.nl) Message 3 in thread Aaron wrote: >At least until they make a camera actually take photographs, >and give you a list when you're done. > >You'd think this wouldn't be too hard to do... since they >have an array of some sort that keeps track of monsters 'killed'... >Just create a second such array... that keeps track of monsters >'photographed'. Keeping a record of photographs would definitely be a nice feature, but I'd like to see it done a bit differently. Your way would be fine if you wanted to add the extra challenge of taking a picture of every monster in the game before ascending, but it would be a lot more fun if pictures would be kept in the order they were taken and with a small description of what's on the picture. What I'm thinking about is a new command, maybe #photoalbum, which would show something like this: 1. A picture of a newt. 2. A picture of a corpse of a newt, a dart and an approaching kobold. 3. A picture of a blind kobold. 4. A picture of your pet little kitten Mittens, eating. [...] 45. A picture of a peaceful forest centaur, a chest and the fleeing Croesus. 46. A picture of an approaching shopkeeper named Pakka Pakka. 47. A picture of a dungeon wall. 48. A picture of an altar to Blind Io, with the corpse of a soldier ant on it. Needless to say, this would be a bit harder to code. I don't know the Nethack source code (I have a tendency to stop playing games after I get familiar with their source code, so I'm avoiding Nethack's source code like the plague), but it wouldn't take too much effort, I think. The result is a photoalbum which is almost a summary of your game (as long as you're using your camera judiciously, of course). This would definitely be a very nice feature. From: Laura M. Parkinson (lparkinson@mindspring.com) Message 5 in thread aaron@iphc.washington.edu (Aaron) pondered for a while, then blurted out: *snip some great ideas for photos that I"d like to include all of...but it's just too long ;) * >Grin. Doubt we'll ever see it, but its fun to ponder. Actually, I suggested something like this briefly a month or so back, I think. Although more as a throw-away comment. I still like the idea, though. Maybe add some more "special checks" to add phrases to the picture description. Like if the monster is tame, add something like "your adorable little" or "your faithful pet" or if the creature is rideable, "your loyal mount" or something. Of course, that could make some interesting pictures as well... "your adorable little Pulverizer the Master Lich, dealing the fatal blow to a fleeing hill orc." Maybe have some objects be included in pictures as well, like artifacts. Either when on the ground, or wielded. "A fleeing leprechaun, is that Mjollnir beyond it?" "The corpse of a water moccasin, with Stormbringer clutched triumphantly in your hand." Corpses also should be included in pictures, and statues and fountains (nice scenic Touristy pictures.. maybe tourists should get a point bonus for each "touristy" picture they ascend with?) Also, the camera should have a chance to "go off" and take silly pictures when some things happen. Like... You fall down the stairs--more-- Your camera goes off with a flash. And at the end of the game, you'd have "A beautiful in-depth photo detailing the lovely 4th level stairs." From: Rob Ellwood (rob.ellwood@home.com) Message 6 in thread Aaron wrote: > > ...you'd need a way to describe these things it sees, without > being too boringly repetative. > ...a 'random group of selectable phrases' might work. More descriptive phrases could involve dead / wound status / healthy: "a badly wounded gnome, fighting bare-handed, looking completely terrified". General description of that part of the dungeon: "in the background are dimly lit stone walls; you think it's about level 4". Random YAFM: "the Yeti is holding a broad- sword in one hand and giving you the finger with the other". We need this just for the YAFMs. From: Jonathan Ellis Message 7 in thread And, of course, for every picture taken on a cursed camera... "A close-up picture of your thumb." [A different thread about cameras:] From: Erica L. Sadun (erica@cc.gatech.edu) Message 1 in thread I'm attempting to play in the purest tourist mode. That means after as many kills as possible, Biff the Tourist stands on his kill and takes a picture of himself with his leg resting on the corpse. He'd also like to take pictures of the "locals" but the shopkeepers resent his friendliness and when Biff has to kill one, he decided to hold off for a while on photoing the others. From: The Water Walker (wilsonch@newt.CS.ORST.EDU) Message 2 in thread I just had a brilliant (?) idea. Why not have the camera produce pictures? I mean, what good is a camera if you can't put the photos in an album? The pix could be applyed to look at 'em or show 'em to someone/thing. They could maybe function like a scare monster or aggravate monster. A pic of Bob the Barbarian standing on an orc corpse could either scare or enrage that orc that's about to chop you into little bits, for example. From: Johannes Jarvinen at Camerino (joha@unicam.it) Message 3 in thread Thanks for your idea, I think its good. From that idea, how about dipping the photographs in potion of poison or confusion or what ever you want? The effect would be like that of Voodoo. [A different thread about cameras:] From: Roy Stead (roy.stead@free-internet.co.uk) Message 1 in thread Subject: Photo Album for Nethack Keolah wrote in message news:070dbf92.53fb90b9@usw-ex0102-009.remarq.com... > In article <3885427b.20779727@news.mindspring.com>, > lparkinson@mindspring.com (Laura M. Parkinson) wrote: > > Along with the monsters genocided, etc etc lists that you get at > > the > > end of the game, if you've used a camera you should also get a > > list of > > pictures you've taken. ;) > > A picture of a startled rothe > > A picture of an angry forest centaur > > A picture of a statue of Perseus > > *grins* well, just an idea ;p > > Picture of a pretty fountain. > Picture of a water nymph trying on a very familiar looking Hawaiian > shirt. > Picture of angry water demon. > Picture accidently snapped of corridor while running from said water > demon. Loved this idea. So much, I figured I'd see how to implement it: monflag.h: Add this after line 161 (which defines M3_INFRAVISIBLE): #ifdef TOURIST #define M3_PHOTOGRAPHED 0x1000 /* Has had its photograph taken */ #endif apply.c: after line 80 (which contains a flash_hits_mon() call) , insert: #ifdef TOURIST mvitals[mtmp->mnum].mflags3 |= M3_PHOTOGRAPHED; #endif end.c: after line 221 (which has a closing brace following a list_genocided() call), insert: #ifdef TOURIST if (!done_stopprint && (!flags.end_disclose[0] || index(flags.end_disclose, 'p'))) { list_photographed(); } #endif end.c: after line 37, add: #ifdef TOURIST STATIC_DCL void NDECL(list_photographed); #endif end.c: Finally, insert the following function definition at the end of the file: #ifdef TOURIST /* Photo Album: First try, 2000-01-20 --RS */ STATIC_OVL void list_photographed() { register int i; int nphotographed; int nnotphotographed; int almost; char c; winid klwin; char buf[BUFSZ]; nphotographed = 0; nnotphotographed = 0; for (i = LOW_PM; i < NUMMONS; ++i) if (mvitals[i].mflags3 & M3_PHOTOGRAPHED) nphotographed++; else nnotphotographed++; /* Photographed species list */ if (nphotographed != 0) { c = yn_function("Do you want to see your photo album?", ynqchars, 'n'); if (c == 'q') done_stopprint++; if (c == 'y') { klwin = create_nhwindow(NHW_MENU); putstr(klwin, 0, "Photographed species:"); putstr(klwin, 0, ""); for (i = LOW_PM; i < NUMMONS; i++) if (mvitals[i].mflags3 & M3_PHOTOGRAPHED) { /* Maybe we should show the monster's graphical tile here too? */ if ((mons[i].geno & G_UNIQ) && i != PM_HIGH_PRIEST) Sprintf(buf, "%s%s", !type_is_pname(&mons[i]) ? "" : "the ", mons[i].mname); else Strcpy(buf, makeplural(mons[i].mname)); putstr(klwin, 0, buf); } putstr(klwin, 0, ""); /* Give extra message for would-be wildlife photographers */ almost = (nnotphotographed < ((nnotphotographed + nphotographed) / 10)); Sprintf(buf, "%d species photographed%s%s.", nphotographed, !almost ? "" : (nnotphotographed > 0 && almost) ? " Almost a" : " A", almost ? " complete set!" : "" ); putstr(klwin, 0, buf); if (Role_if(PM_TOURIST) && almost) { Sprintf(buf,"Quite a safari."); putstr(klwin, 0, buf); } display_nhwindow(klwin, TRUE); destroy_nhwindow(klwin); } } } #endif I *think* that should work - most of it is taken from the existing genocide disclosure handling code (You could use the monsters-vanquished code instead - put an additional field in mvitals[], in decl.h, and adapt the list_vanquished() function, in end.c, to use the new field. Modify the line in apply.c to increment the new mvitals flag and that should do it. That would keep track of the number of each species of monster which you have photographed, rather than just which species as I've done above, but the "complete set" YAFM wouldn't be quite so appropriate ). If you add "p" to the "disclose:" entry in your nethack config file (or if you, like me, are set up to disclose everything by simply giving "disclose:" without an argument), you should get the option to view your photograph album at the end of the game. Oh, and I know I didn't add a note as to whether or not you'd taken a picture of yourself. Or support for photographing objects or dungeon furniture, etc - I figured a species album was enough to start with, since the genocide code could be readily "adapted." And the decision not to count photographing a monster from the inside *was* a deliberate one. Now: Anyone feel like adding tiles support as well ? More e-mails, possibly duplicating some of the above: From: tina@kruemel.dnsalias.com (Tina Hall) ...I'd like pictures for anyone who uses a camera, rarely use that thing and would like a reason to do so. You'd have to take each used camera with you to the end, though, to get the pictures. > What other things should the Tourist be able to photograph? Anything. Statues, walls, bones piles (or maybe just graves and dead bodies), shops, trees, lakes, items, traps, ideally also Sokoban (level solved or screwed up, only as a comment, not the screenshot, depending on whether boulders minus holes filled match what should be left, or something like that, or the screenshot if that's easier to do), and of course: - people without heads / sideways: when confused - own hands / the ceiling / a mirror (if in inventory): when hallucinating - your own face: when stunned - [something special]: when sick - [something special]: when stoned - [something special]: when slimed - [something special]: when hungry - [something special]: when foodpoisoned From: zedpower@hotmail.com (ZedPower) Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack > What other things should the Tourist be able to photograph? Historical statues (the kind that penalizes archeologists when destroyed) might be worth something. Photographing yourself while in a special/important level (mine end, Medusa's island, big room, etc.) could be interesting too. "See? That's me in front of Vlad's tower! And here's a red dragon, though it's hard to tell with its head cut off." =[:-)] From: fishbowl@conservatory.com Malcolm Ryan wrote: > >What other things should the Tourist be able to photograph? There should be more than one type of camera. y - a camera z - a camera What would you like to identify first? y y - an uncursed expensive camera (0:36) What would you like to identify next? z z - a blessed instant camera (0:8) With an instant camera, a location photographed will be exempt from amnesia. It protects a lit area of the map from the point of view of the character when he snapped the picture. I think that with any camera flash, it should briefly illuminate the room. Darkened rooms will still be dark, but you'll have seen the walls, etc. Also, what should a tourist NOT be able to photograph? Not Vampires, certainly. Trying to photograph a Ghosts could abuse your wisdom, and perhaps have a chance of costing experience. Any shaman should become aggravated by having his picture taken. I do wonder if the instant photos themselves could have any interest as an inventory item, or if a photo album in a spellbook slot makes any sense. From: Rob Ellwood Malcolm Ryan wrote: > > [Well, Yet Another Old Idea... but this time I plan to implement it.] I've also got some photography ideas. I'm missing two things: motivation to get moving on them, and technical support. If my ideas are sufficiently amusing, would you be willing to crack the whip over me? As in "Here's feedback on version 2. When can I expect version 3?" Are your programming skills pretty solid? I'm a hobbyist, not a true programmer. I don't know the best way to add the data structure I need to the existing data structure for objects. Advice there, and feedback on code quality would both help. Note that merging our patches would probably be a disadvantage for your patch. My patch will break save file compatibility. I suspect that most people get their patches via Philipp Lucas' precompiled PatchHack. The "compatible files" version is usually preferable. Patches which break file compatibility lose a lot of the target audience. On the other hand, I have no problems with using your patch as a starting point. _______________________ Summary: people use tinning kits to get souvenir tins of their exploits. Add photographs as superior souvenirs. Each photo has a name ("werewolf on level 5") and a full description when read ("A slightly wounded werewolf. He looks very angry. He is snarling at the camera. He is carrying a shield and a mace. The background is unlit.") Photographs are weightless, photo albums are light (or beginning characters are forced to dump them). Stage 1: add objects "photo album" and "photograph". When a photograph is taken, name it for the monster and dungeon level. Add spoiled shots (50% cursed cameras, 10% uncursed, 0% blessed; half that for tourists). Give starting tourists a photo album. Whenever a camera is generated, add a photo album. Stage 2: add text strings to the "photograph" objects. Change the save file format as required. For now, just copy the photograph's name to the full description. Add reading photo- graphs. Stage 3: add trophy shots: photograph yourself when there's a corpse (or statue) in the square. Stage 4: add descriptions of objects carried. Add descriptions of the background. Add descriptions of foreground objects: objects up to and including the square that the monster is in. Stage 5: vary the descriptions given by range. Range 0-1: only the monster & carried objects are visible. Range 2-3: the background is not visible. Stage 6: add descriptions of the monster's health and status (asleep, pet, fleeing...). Stage 7: have the end-of-game dump list trophy shots and live monsters photographed. Stage 8: add flavor text for each type of monster: "the orc has a finger bone through his nose"; "the nymph has a red ribbon in her hair". There are too many monsters to do a good job of this. Other: randomly generated photos? Flavor text for scenery shots of e.g. Medusa's level? Dump all the photo info to a file at the end of a game? (From my notes files; it probably overlaps the above quite a bit:) Photo album: wt 5, container, but it only holds photos. Generate one with each camera. Photos are a separate object. Taking a photo => photo immediately goes to the photo album (if any) or to your inventory (drop it if full). Do I have to encode all the text to numbers? Photos are immediately #called [monster name] [dungeon name] level [level #]. r)ead the photo album to get more text. Monster name can be "You"; leave blank if n/a. 10% spoiled (50% cursed camera, 0% blessed). "Badly out of focus" "Thumb in way" "Floor, or maybe the ceiling" "blood splashed on lens" "lens cap on". If range zero and photo self, you're asked "take a trophy shot?" Description of you and of beast. if (monster invis) then not shown (unless camera is blessed, then you see a cloudy outline) Range 0-1: see extreme close-up. Range 2: see the monster, but no background objects. Range 3+: see the normal monster descr, plus foreground and background. For all but range 0-1, you get a general description of the area. Foreground objects (= objects in front of the monster): unless monster is tiny, you don't see them for the first two squares. In fact, bigger monsters => less foreground stuff seen. Class the size of the foreground stuff? Try to base monster descriptions on invariant monster ID numbers? I don't think it's needed. A photo of [monster name OR "yourself"]. the "name this monster" routine needs expanding to include "yourself". If monster: "He/she/it looks angry/frightened/..." many cases. else you: cursed camera: "You look stunned/bedazzled/surprised." else: "you're smiling / looking serious/ grim." "Head cut off". Some monsters are featureless: vortices, air elementals, description based on monster's health. Say if monster is asleep/confused/stunned/fleeing/peaceful/pet/ happy (because winning the fight)/whatever status flags monsters have. 10% pinkeye. 10% blinked. If monster, can be spattered with your blood / carrying a human head on belt/ many details. If carrying stuff, describe. If armed, describe. If armored, describe. Describe stuff in background: doorway, chest, corpses... Describe stuff in same square. Describe foreground objects. Describe surroundings very roughly. May have to encode everything as a number: no problem. Alternatively, have a text file [charname].NHQ. If a photo's ID # is 234, the appropriate photo description is #234. Randomly generate photos for random items. Place some in found cameras; sometimes place them in shop inventory cameras. Keep lists of monsters photographed & trophy photographed. 6. Boots of Burden +50% carrying capacity. Description: "massive boots". Modify weight_cap in hack.c: if (boots of burden) carry_cap =* 1.5 Call inv_weight after putting the boots on or off; this updates wc. The routines are probably something like boots_on and boots_off. Being reasonable, this higher carrying capacity shouldn't apply when flying. But, if we make that a special case, we then have to keep the player from lifting off for various cases (OK) *and* give the player a short, clear, reasonable message explaining why (crud). Let 'em fly. 7. Depth and challenge patch Easy changes: Challenge: +ve enchantment on weapon increase damage, but not to-hit. cursed confused destroy armor curses the armor. challenge: MR does not protect against magic draining. MD drains a percent of your maximum SP. Depth: Unicorn horn BUC carries forward into dipped potions. Challenge: unicorn horns don't cure hallucination. See hack.c unfixable_trouble_count Challenge: upgrade dragons. Double their speed at a minimum. Challenge: if you're wearing a ring of conflict and walk into someone peaceful, it works like Stormbringer: you attack without being asked "are you sure?". Challenge: when digging a pit, 10 - luck/2% unexpectedly break through to the next level. DEPTH AND CHALLENGE PATCH This patch is a set of changes to Nethack designed to add challenge and depth of play. Adding depth of play generally makes the game easier: the player has more options open to him, and he picks the best. Example: if you can pickaxe rock to make boulders, you now have a huge poten- tial supply of boulders on most levels. Adding challenge generally makes the game harder: something that used to be perfectly safe now sometimes goes wrong; something that used to be easy now takes work. Overall, I don't think that this patch changes the difficulty much. I hope that it improves the game by making it more complex. After eating a mimic, "you decide to mimic a [object] for a while". You're told the true object; using "/" on the map tells you the object appearance. Luck=0: a random object is selected. Luck>0: try Luck times to find an un-IDed object. Luck<0: try -Luck times to find an IDed object. Also, unless you mimic a statue, you dump all your armor. (For balance.) Some types of monsters fight each other. in mon.c, mm_aggression controls intra-monster aggression. [For seeing via raven's eyes, see display.h.] Pets are only tamed/peacefulled by appropriate food. The food is eaten, even if they're only made peaceful. Throwing food to a monster: it can stop to eat the food, even if it's untameable. Grab the "dangerous searching" patch? Wand of lightning blows up wands on the ground. Untrap falling rock traps if levitating or flying. - When I'm pickaxing a tunnel, I have never once dropped a boulder on my head or on the square I was pickaxing. (10% per square, or use whatever odds tunnelling dwarves have. Half the boulders go in your square. This would add a source of boulders to the game.) (Dwarven helms protect a lot against rockfalls, soft helms not at all, other helms somewhat. Upgrade falling rock traps to account for this. - When I'm setting a bear trap or land mine, I have never once done a Wile E. Coyote on myself. (20% of the "failed untrap" chance.) (This reminds me: mines are too heavy. If they were light enough to carry around, they would be Fun Toys. As it is, they're impractical. Making them lighter would add to the game. Yes, this makes something easier, but mines are so heavy now that they *aren't used*. A Fun Toy is out of play.) - I've never had my helmet knocked off my head. (0.1% chance per blow doing 10+ points?). - I've never broken my weapon. (Blessed or positive enchantment or artifact: never. Uncursed and +0: one in 32K. Cursed or negative enchantment: 0.1%. Thrown stuff which does not hit nice, soft flesh is 20 times more likely to break. I would lose several daggers per ascension. Breaking your main weapon would be a very rare and memorable event.) - Armor could come in the 4-5 sizes that critters come in. (20% chance of non-standard sizes; raise the fraction of random loot which is armor and the amount of random loot so that the only effect is to add trash armor; polymorphed armor does not change size. Some monsters could be made more formidable (giants in plate mail), some polymorphers will armor up a bit, on rare occasions it will be worth polymorph- ing just to use a particular piece of armor. Mis-sized armor would sometimes be darned annoying. "I found Gauntlets of Power on level 1. Sized 'very tiny'.") - I have never stumbled uncontrollably to another square when slipping on ice. Ice is often beside water.... - When I'm carrying lots of gold, sleeping leprechauns don't sniff the air, murmur "gold!", and wake up. (The odds and/or range should depend on how many z$ you have in your main inventory.) - When I have a high charisma, nymphs aren't worse. (YAFM: they should sometimes pinch the butt of high-charisma males before vanishing. It should be easy enough. No-one's wearing pants, after all.) - Water walking boots stay on the water surface no matter what. I have never been on the *wrong side* of the surface. (Unburdening: rust + blank scrolls + diluted potions; you're upright by next turn. Burdened: you have one turn to get unburdened. Fail, and you're upside down until the bubbles stop coming up.) (I can't think of what could reasonably cause this. A monster deliberately pushes you over?) - My weapon has never once rusted when I hit a water elemental. (10%?) - I was thinking of adding code to let monsters wish. This is low on my list; anyone want to take it over? (Smoky potion wish => you inherit SDSM you wouldn't get otherwise, which is good. Magic lamp wish => you get SDSM, like it or not, which is often a wasted wish. WoW => you inherit the second blessed scroll of charging (OK), the SDSM, the cloak of MR (often good), and the remaining charges in the wand of death. You CAN survive death rays, right?) (I would be inclined to leave out monsters #rubbing magic lamps.) 8. Tourists start with souvenirs. Give tourists junky "souvenirs". 80% of them converted to bad. None are IDed and most have grandiose names. [Google for my post about this.] 9. Squabble patch The routine mm_aggression in mon.c. You really nailed it: the *only* pair of monsters now in it is purple worms and shriekers. (Squabble Patch, here I come. Orcs vs elves, dwarves, and shopkeepers. Cats and rats. Cats and dogs, unless this routine is called for pet/pet pairings. About 0.5% orc/orc fratricide. 3%, when the tribes are different. Monsters should not attack far tougher monsters.) > Hmm, and what if you tame two? > > hawk, dreading the polygamy patch . . . Right now, nothing. I guess they could both turn hostile. That would be mildly entertaining, but rare. I'll leave it out, unless I revisit the patch for something else. [Notes to myself: if they ever get adjacent, they compare notes, and "you hear shrieks of rage". For male characters, this should happen with tame nymphs, too. See mm_aggression for how to do this.] Seraph wrote: > No, they should start attacking each other. I think that would be more > entertaining. Dayv! wrote: How about equal chances of them attacking each other or becoming hostile, with a slim chance (perhaps LUCK/100) of them coexisting peacefully? Nan Wang: What if you tame a succubus, then puts on an amulet of change. Would the succubus leave? What if then you tame an incubus? Subject: Re: Patch (announcment) : Roadrunner / Roadrunner feathers Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:15:16 +0100 From: "Robert Shaw" Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack Dayv! wrote: > Rob Ellwood wrote: >> >> >> The routine mm_aggression in mon.c. You really nailed it: >> the *only* pair of monsters now in it is purple worms and shriekers. >> >> (Squabble Patch, here I come. Orcs vs elves, dwarves, and >> shopkeepers. Cats and rats. Cats and dogs, unless this routine >> is called for pet/pet pairings. About 0.5% orc/orc fratricide. >> 3%, when the tribes are different. Monsters should not attack >> far tougher monsters.) > > This could give rise to an interesting strategy if some of the > really annoying monsters (like master mind flayers and foo liches) > had nemeses. Reverse genocide their foes and run like hell! > Unfortunately, I can't think of any real foes for these monsters > other than @. For liches, angels would be a sensible enemy. They are unlikely to meet each other by chance, and angels can't be reverse genocided, but ingenious players may be able to use the conflict. There are many pairs of monsters where conflict would be reasonable; undead and priests, dwarves and (baby) dragons, elves and orcs, quest friendlies and hostiles, werefoo and humanoids. Too much squabbling would make the game easier but adding a few more instances would just make it colourful, and add a new tactic. -- 'It is a wise crow that knows which way the camel points' - Pratchett Robert Shaw Subject: Re: Patch (announcment) : Roadrunner / Roadrunner feathers Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:22:33 +0800 From: Michael Clarke Organization: Posted Via Newsfeeds.com = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.newsfeeds.com Newsgroups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack On 14 Oct 2002 14:31:49 GMT, laughingSPAMTRAP@yourpain.com (Dayv!) wrote: >Rob Ellwood wrote: >> >> "Dayv!" wrote: >> (Squabble Patch, here I come. Orcs vs elves, dwarves, and >> shopkeepers. Cats and rats. Cats and dogs, unless this routine >> is called for pet/pet pairings. About 0.5% orc/orc fratricide. >> 3%, when the tribes are different. Monsters should not attack >> far tougher monsters.) > > This could give rise to an interesting strategy if some of the really >annoying monsters (like master mind flayers and foo liches) had nemeses. >Reverse genocide their foes and run like hell! > Unfortunately, I can't think of any real foes for these monsters other >than @. Hmmm. Mindless undead should attack eveything/anything with a mind (or maybe with heat) - except the beastie that summoned them. Fire elements go for mummies and paper golems, maybe other undead as well. Mammuks and other elephantine beasties flee from rodents. Incubii prefer nymphs and succubii. Nymphs are attracted to angels. Tigers chase monkeys and apes. Dwarves chase rock moles, rust monsters and disenchanters. Elves chase wood chucks. 10. Tone down speed. Now: intrinsic speed is +1 speed. Extrinsic speed from boots is +2. They don't stack. Change: make them both +1, and have them stack. After you find speed boots, you're still looking for a wand of speed monster. 11. Construction patch. When pickaxing out tunnels, rockfalls and boulder falls can happen. Dwarves always or almost always dodge these. Metal hats cut the damage. Dwarven helms cut the damage even more. You can a)pply rocks to build walls. (Note: either forbid this on non-diggable levels, or make the walls diggable by setting a flag.) It takes 50 rocks; 25, if a boulder is in that square. Once you're out of carried rocks, rocks in your square are picked up and used. You a)pply the rocks in a direction. One turn per rock. A partly-built wall is shown as a pile of rocks named "partly built wall". A hidden flag is set to show that X rocks are a partly built wall. Picking them up gives "dismantle the wall? yN" and clears the flag. You can a)pply rocks into water to try to fill the water. 1 turn, no matter how many rocks; carried rocks only. (The plane of water is a special case. But which way? Allow islands, or disallow?) Make the stone-to-flesh spell able to hit several targets in a row, if it doesn't already. Diggable wall (but not trees) turns into huge lumps of meat. Striking and force bolt spall rock off diggable walls, and can eventually dig through. Make it ~5 shots to dig: workable, but you use up wands of striking pretty fast. When digging a pit, dump a spoil pile on an adjacent square. When digging through to the next level, you usually get a rockfall. Some rocks/boulders may land in your square. Dwarves get smaller / fewer rockfalls. When pickaxing out a square of rock where the four adjacent squares are all non-rock & non-wall, "carve out a boulder? yn". 11.1 NPC dwarves construction Peaceful dwarves on a lit level right below minetown. If left alone, they dig for rocks, then start building walls. They eventually build a new fortress. 12. Learning spells as a wizard. Let wizard learn spells from the apprentices on the quest level. Charge 50 * spell level * your level. That gives wizards a little dilemma: buy protection, or buy spells? 13. YANIs from Timo Viitanen Spiked gauntlets - not sure if these already exist. Gives a heavy increase to unarmed damage, and has a decent protection value. Spiked boots - not sure it these are in the game, either. Allows you to walk on slippery surfaces (ice) without fumbling, gives a heavy increase to kick damage. New potion of oil use - apply the PoO on the ground to make it very slippery. Handy for slowing nasties down when you need to get out of their reach quickly. Wand of havoc - [snipped: powergaming] Training sword - Unidentified as "wooden sword". Does quarter the damage of a long sword but makes you advance weapon skills twice as fast as normal. Padded coat - Causes training swords to do no damage to you when worn, and causes your speed, if fast, to revert to normal. Dwarwen trainer - Found in a room of minetown about half the time. In the same room there are three padded coats and training sword. When you #chat with him, he tells you to grab a coat and a sword. When you are wearing a padded coat and a training sword, and #chat with him, and answer yes to the question of if you want to train, he shouts: "Defend yourself!" and starts to fight with you. You can then fight with him, and get weapon skills thrice as fast as normally. He stops bashing you when you #chat with him again. He charges 1 zorkmid per turn for training. If you refuse to train, he also offers to teach you to disarm a foe, for 5000 zorkmids. You need to have a positive luck and a sword in your hand to succeed. This is done by #disarm, and the direction of an adjacent foe. You have a 20% chance to succeed, +1% for every luck point, +5% for your every skill level over unskilled in the weapon skill, +2% for every level you have over the monster's level and -2% for every level the monster has over yours. Needless to say, the foe has to have a weapon in hand for you to succeed. Elven enchantress - [snipped; powergaming.] Dwarwen innkeeper - Found in a room of minetown. If you #chat with him, he offers to sell you an ale for $5, making you confused for 5 turns. He also tells you a fortune cookie message when you buy an ale, 50% of the time. He offers to let you stay in the inn for the night for $50 if you haven't angered the city guards. This fully heals you. Old gladiator - Found in the inn third of the time. Recounts old battle stories when #chatted with. After this, asks you to buy him an ale. For the first time you do so, you raise a level in a random weapon skill, "The old gladiator teaches you some battle tricks." After that, "Thanksh you vhery mucsh, frennd! (hic)" Aged traveller - In the inn about third of the time. Offers to tell you the depth of the oracle level for $50 and "teaches you some things he has learned in his travels" for $1000, once, acting like a blessed potion of gain level. Dirty drunk - In the inn if gladiator or traveller isn't generated, insults you when #chatted with. Merchant - Found wandering around the minetown. He's a bit weaker than a shopkeeper. When #chatted with, offers to sell you food rations for $40 or whatever is the appropriate prize. Bureaucrat - in a small minetown room. When you #chat with him, 'The bureaucrat sneers at you. "I'm busy."' If you anger the guards you can make the bureaucrat pacify them, for a single time, by giving him a large amount of gold. Remarks from Ben de Waal: Note, all opinions in the following post are my own - I don't claim to speak for anyone else, so no flames saying "don't speak for everyone" cos I'm not :P Feel free to agree or disagree though. "Timo Viitanen" wrote in message news:9slcfu$pfs$1@news1.song.fi... > Spiked gauntlets - not sure if these already exist. Gives a heavy increase > to unarmed damage, and has a decent protection value. Would you count this as weaponless? If so it seems a little powerful for monks who already do pretty well weaponless - and probably quite useless for anyone else since a weapon will be better - unless you're going to use the enchantment as a weapon AND protection bonus, in which case, yeh, I can see this as being quite cool. > Spiked boots - not sure it these are in the game, either. Allows you to > walk on slippery surfaces (ice) without fumbling, gives a heavy increase > to kick damage. Well, some people may disagree, but to me it just seems like a superfluous extra piece of garbage lying around cluttering up the dungeon. > New potion of oil use - apply the PoO on the ground to make it very slippery. > Handy for slowing nasties down when you need to get out of their reach quickly. Makes sense.... > Training sword - Unidentified as "wooden sword". Does quarter the damage of a > long sword but makes you advance weapon skills twice as fast as normal. Which kind of weapon skill would it advance? Just longsword? And it pretty much renders weapon skills worthless... just carry one around with you and every time you fight grid bugs or lichens or anything else, switch to it and you'll be expert in no time. > Padded coat - Causes training swords to do no damage to you when worn, and causes > your speed, if fast, to revert to normal. Superfluous, and would require the wooden sword idea which I don't like. > Dwarwen trainer [snip description] Er, if you're going with the wooden sword and padded coat, okay... but see above, so no. > Dwarwen innkeeper - Found in a room of minetown. If you #chat with him, he offers > to sell you an ale for $5, making you confused for 5 turns. He also tells you a > fortune cookie message when you buy an ale, 50% of the time. He offers to let you > stay in the inn for the night for $50 if you haven't angered the city guards. > This fully heals you. Er, no. Basically 5 zorkmids is far too cheap for booze... and 50 zorkmids is far far too cheap for full healing... and again, it just doesn't feel like it "fits". > Old gladiator - Found in the inn third of the time. Recounts old battle stories when > #chatted with. After this, asks you to buy him an ale. For the first time you do so, > you raise a level in a random weapon skill, "The old gladiator teaches you some battle > tricks." After that, "Thanksh you vhery mucsh, frennd! (hic)" Kinda usless if it's a random weapon skill - most people generally will only use 3 types of weapons at most in their "life". Just seems generally superfluous. > Aged traveller - In the inn about third of the time. Offers to tell you the depth of > the oracle level for $50 and "teaches you some things he has learned in his travels" > for $1000, once, acting like a blessed potion of gain level. I wouldn't object to this, but it seems a lot of extra hassle for what it is... basically a use once gain level (who cares where the Oracle is exactly, you'll meet him eventually!) for 1000 zorkmids (overpriced compared to one in a shop, but that's okay since you know it's available for definite) > Dirty drunk - In the inn if gladiator or traveller isn't generated, insults you when > #chatted with. Assuming the other two go in, then yes, someone usless is required the other 1/3rd of the time. > Merchant - Found wandering around the minetown. He's a bit weaker than a shopkeeper. > When #chatted with, offers to sell you food rations for $40 or whatever is the > appropriate prize. Er, unlimited food ? Makes the delicatessen a little pointless... and I don't like the idea of a wandering shopkeeper, weaker or not. > Bureaucrat - in a small minetown room. When you #chat with him, 'The bureaucrat sneers > at you. "I'm busy."' If you anger the guards you can make the bureaucrat pacify them, > for a single time, by giving him a large amount of gold. Superfluous extra again (I seem to be using the word superfluous rather alot, anyone got a thesaurus handy?) - I again have nothing specifically against this idea, but I wouldn't apply this patch given the option. Remarks from me: Timo Viitanen: > > Spiked gauntlets 1 armor, +1 damage for unarmed combat? Sounds fine. Iron, so they rust. Ben de Waal: > > ...it seems a little powerful for monks who already do pretty > well weaponless - and probably quite useless for anyone else > since a weapon will be better - unless you're going to use the > enchantment as a weapon AND protection bonus, in which case, > yeh, I can see this as being quite cool. Don't use the enchantment for protection AND damage, or it unbalances monks. Monks are balanced for weaponless, which includes weapon enchantment-less. (It would be fine in Slash'EM's powergaming. Heck, it might even balance Slash'EM's monks, if it's their turn to be powergamed up.) Timo Viitanen: > > Spiked boots. Snow boots exist, and rarely help. Kicking boots exist, and aren't used. (YANI: monks with them get +1 damage to unarmed attacks 50% of the time.) Adding spiked boots is fine, but they don't make me sit up and say "New Toy!" > New potion of oil use - apply the PoO on the ground to make it > very slippery. Handy for slowing nasties down when you need > to get out of their reach quickly. A new trap? OK. And one the player can build? New Toy! [Snip babbling about falling down, and my slow realization that adding the concept of "prone" opens several cans of worms.] Well, forget about falling down. How about: "The giant ant slips and slides, and struggles to stay upright"? Moving onto a slippery patch costs you your next turn 70% of the time. Trying to do anything that requires footwork (combat, moving off) costs you a turn 30% of the time. Let's see... this helps the player more than it hurts him. He's unlikely to hit a trap during a fight. Meanwhile, he can set one at the Ludios doorway, and laugh at the poor soldiers. :-/ That's too effective. This new trap adds to the game, but destroys the Ludios challenge. (And Ludios is already too weak if you have reflection.) With great reluctance and a sad heart, I have to vote against it. > Training sword - Unidentified as "wooden sword". Does quarter > the damage of a long sword but makes you advance weapon skills > twice as fast as normal. Sure. We would want several: long sword, dagger, sabre, and blunted spear. They need a bit of tweaking, though. Twice as fast / quarter damage = 8 times as many successful hits per weak enemy you find. Find two weak enemies and you can gain a skill level. How about having a third damage without faster skill advancing? > Padded coat ... Dwarwen trainer - Found in a room of minetown > about half the time. I like the idea of extra characters in Minetown. They would add flavor. > ...get weapon skills thrice as fast as normally. Normal skill gain rates, please. You would gain skill levels *fast* even without it. > He charges 1 zorkmid per turn for training. Too cheap. You could casually max out a weapon skill with pocket change. ~ z$70 to go from "unskilled" to "basic" after ghod gives you a foobrand. 5 or 10 z$ per turn, I would say. > ...teach you to disarm a foe, for 5000 zorkmids. OK, but the price is too high. How about z$200? This opens up a new skill slot, "disarm", which you can then train up in. (I don't think people would use it. I don't recall any posts saying "...but then I disarmed [nasty guy] with my bullwhip, thank ghod".) > If you #chat with [the dwarven innkeeper], he offers to sell > you an ale for $5, making you confused for 5 turns. Sorry, no. An early source of confusion destroys a challenge: fooproofing and repairing items. > Old gladiator - Found in the inn third of the time. Recounts > old battle stories when #chatted with. After this, asks you > to buy him an ale. For the first time you do so, > you raise a level in a random weapon skill.... Yes. Especially if it can be in a skill you're currently restricted in. Every so often, you'll luck out and gain a really useful skill. How about small chances of an Old Mage, an Old Healer, or an Old Priest? Having small chances of opening up screwy skill slots would be fun. New Toy! Someone would eventually have a Barbarian with the Identify spell! > Aged traveller ...acting like a blessed potion of gain level. Powergaming! I can live with it, but barely. Jeez. > Merchant ...offers to sell you food rations... As someone else pointed out, an unlimited supply makes the deli redundant. How about: a beggar who has one randomly generated item to sell? Most of the time, you'll look at it and sneer, but sometimes you'll get lucky. > Bureaucrat ...make the bureaucrat pacify [angry guards] > a single time, by giving him a large amount of gold. Sure. I would prefer that he say what the bribe is. I don't like the way unspoiled newbies don't know how much to pay the priest. And does ANYONE bother trying to bribe town guards or soldiers? YANI: fix bribing guards. Throw money => 50% chance of "It would take [x] zorkmids for me to abandon my duty!" Right now, the code for bribing exists, but the gameplay does not. (I don't kill peacefuls. I have been chased out of town by angry guards after making a typo. My main supply dump was in town. I code dived to optimize my bribing, collected money, tried it until I went broke, failed every time, and gave up on bribes. If bribes do not work for a very motivated, fully spoiled player, then, for all practical purposes, they do not exist.) 14. Celery corey ...celery would have two uses: 1. reduce satiation -- or really, make you more hungry (playing off the "negative calories" nature of celery). 2. #dip in a potion... [snipped; seemed bizarre & illogical to me.] My remarks: You eat the celery stick. --more-- *CRUNCH* *CRUNCH* *CRUNCH* --more-- The mountain nymph wakes up! I like the negative calories. I put it in my idea file, after someone relayed your idea maybe a year ago. I'm unlikely to ever put it in a patch, though: I'm an idea hamster, so I've got more ideas than I can ever implement. Note: for it to be of use to people who just ate a dragon and want a fortune cookie for dessert, it would have to use up hundreds of nutrition points. This would be very nasty for new, unspoiled characters: instant starvation. Fix: if hungry or worse, zero nutrition. else if satiated -30 - (your nutrition level - 900)/2 else -30 nutrition, (1000 is the onset of satiation. 2000+ is the onset of "eating more could cause you to choke to death".) 15. Attacking Famine with food nyra I really think that attacking Famine with food should have _some_ effect. I bashed her (him? it?) with Musa, my trusty banana, and nothing spectacular happened. I don't have a good idea for what should happen, though - have famine waste a turn devouring the food? Maybe just a silly message? It should definitely _not_ be really useful. 16. Gloves of skill Mike wrote: > > ... gloves of skill which > would allow to use the weapon you're currently wielding as if you were > one level more skilled than you actually are. If you were restricted > in blades, for example, you could use a sword as if you were merely > unskilled. A character skilled in hammers could wield them as if an > expert. > > If the gloves were cursed, it could lower your skill level instead, > "You find it suddenly awkward to wield your weapon". And maybe for > balance you could not #twoweapon while wearing the gloves. My response: An extra skill level is +1 to damage. (The to-hit bonus only matters to low level characters.) This is not unbalancing. Since it would be hard to rationalize being unable to #twoweapon, I would leave that part out. Let's see: the difference between "restricted/unskilled" and "basic" is more than just +1 to damage. If you had these gloves, it would suddenly be practical to use any weapon at all. It would usually be inferior to use a weapon you're restricted in, but the gloves would sometimes open up interesting possibilities: a healer with a two-handed sword, for example. These gloves would be inferior to gauntlets of power for low and mid level characters, but better for late-game characters. Except for spellcasters. I would *not* introduce a skill level beyond "expert" for these. Without such a skill level, these gloves open up new possibilities for weapons selection. With such a skill level, these gloves would usually leave your optimum weapon unchanged. I would send out an appropriate message when the gloves are donned: "you hold your weapon more confidently" or the like. Having them auto-ID like this doesn't add to the game, but it keeps things consistent with gaining a weapons skill and with the message you propose giving for cursed Gloves of Skill. Item names: "Gauntlets of Power" make you strong, and the name reflects this. (A bit imperfectly; some people expect improved spell casting abilities.) "Gauntlets of Dexterity" are self-explanatory. Both names are in-genre. The name "Gloves of Skill" accurately tells *the player* what the gloves do, but it doesn't sound in-genre to me: it doesn't sound like a name *the character* would expect to hear. I would prefer something like "Gauntlets of the Weapons Master". That name isn't perfect either, because it sounds like it's a unique artifact. "Gauntlets of Weapon Mastery"? "Gauntlets of Slaying" sounds good, even though it doesn't tell the player much. Give them the right name and you can rationalize giving healers one to start. Just take away the +2 on their current gloves; +1 damage more than makes up for it. In fact, low level healers would become a lot easier to play, which makes this a poor idea: let's not eliminate a challenge class. These gloves would add to the depth of the game. In my opinion, they would make the game better. 17. Assorted YAFMs "It blowed up REAL good" for gas spores when hallucinating (SNL reference). Mojo vs monkey: you shock the monkey! Shaman wrote: > Some text has been burned into the floor here.--More-- > You read: "ERAU QSSI DLRO WEHT". I started to put together YAFMs for reading objects when hallucinating. I listed all the objects in the game, and started coming up with ideas. I ran out of ideas long before I ran out of objects. In minetown, when a guard is attacked by a dog or cat, 10% chance of "Heel! Heel, I say!" "Sit! Sit!" "Good [monster name]. Good boy. Now let go of my arm...." "Bad [monster]! "Baaaad [monster]!" When the watch captain is killed, 3% chance of a voice in the distance: "Will the owner of [monster] *please* put it on a leash?" After "KABLAMM! You hear an explosion in the distance!", 1% of the time, you get "Someone overeating, no doubt." After a tourist gets the rotten food message, 2% of the time, you get one of: "This is not as the travel agency described it!" "The native cuisine is not entirely to your liking." "Definitely authentic native cuisine." "Ugh! The local food explains the dispositions of the locals." "This must be that 'hate cuisine' you read about." "Where's the garlic and steaks you heard about?" When hallucinating and near death, "You hear the fat lady warming up." Applying a stethoscope to yourself: in apply.c: } else if (obj->cursed && !rn2(2)) { if (Hallucination) { You_hear("a soothsayer with the weather forecast."); pline("\"Gehennom will get a rain of burning pitch later today.\""); pline("\"The dungeon will be cool, with a stoney gray overcast.\""); return res; } if (is_undead(youmonst.data)) { You_hear("the ocean's roar."); return res; } if Role_if(PM_WIZARD) { You_hear("yourself mumbling curses"); return res; } You_hear("your heart beat."); return res; 18. Appearance-related armor attributes Jason Short: > > Below this I have come up with some (mostly pretty weak) ideas > for appearance-related properties. > > boots: > hiking - leather - prompt before walking into water > or (known) pits > snow - leather - traction on ice > combat - iron - +1 to AC > buckled - iron - doubled cost > mud - cloth? - autocurses > kicking - iron - kicking bonus > Now the types of boots are elven, jumping, levitation, water > walking, fumbling, and speed. I've ignored that elven boots > really shouldn't be matched up with (m)any of the above types. > For some classes and playing styles, the problems with iron > will outweigh good effects of the boot. I have lost riding > and jungle boots since there are now only 6 types. > This scheme would make the game noticably harder for spell- > casters. > > gloves: (material depends on type) > riding - riding bonus (whatever it is now) > old - double the cost > padded - +1 to AC > fencing - bonus to hit (only with swords?) > > Cloaks: (all cloth) > ornamental: +1 to charisma > tattered: -1 to charisma > opera cloak: bonus when using musical instruments??? > cloth: no effect > I can't think of much here. Oilskin could be integrated as > one of these types, but that would probably be way too powerful. > > helmets: (all iron) > horned - butting attack, something like 1-2 damage > (or maybe monsters get damaged when they attack you) > visored - +1 to AC > plumed - +1 to CHA, -1 to DEX (or +X/-X with X enchantment) > etched - some mildly bad effect 19. Totemic animals Remove the nonsense about "peaceful acid blobs". Instead, have totems: animals sacred to particular gods. So, ravens are sacred to Odin, and will never attack neutral Valks. (Change peace_minded in makemon.c.) NNP = not normally played (except by priests). "?" = I'm not certain about this god/fact/idea. "??" = I'm really uncertain. Archeologist (Central American) Lawful: Quetzalcoatl god of the air. Air elementals. Neutral: Camaxtli ? God of hunting and fate. Elves?? Chaotic: Huhetotl fire god! Fire creatures NNP. Barbarian (Hyborian) Lawful: Mitra Yellow lights. NNP. Lord of light. Neutral: Crom God of the dead. Zombies, mummies Chaotic: Set Snakes. God of snakes. Cave(wo)man (Babylonian) Lawful: Anu Should be bulls. Minotaurs. Neutral: Ishtar Succubi/incubi Chaotic: Anshar God of the sky?? Air elemental. NNP. Healer (Greek) Lawful: Athena Should be owl. Make it ravens. NNP Neutral: Hermes God of thieves. Nymphs. Chaotic: Poseidon Kraken. NNP. Knight (Celtic) Lawful: Lugh Hobbits (he was a slinger). Neutral: Brigit NNP nurses: goddess of healing and whatnot. Chaotic: Manannan Mac Lir NNP Kraken: sea god. Monk (Chinese) The names apparently use the Wade-Giles transliteration. To convert to Pinyan, see http://www.pantheon.org/miscellaneous/a-conversion_chart.html Lawful: Shan Lai Ching ? Neutral: Chih Sung-tzu Song-zi, the lady who bestows children? Nurses. Chaotic: Huan Ti same as Huang-di, legendary emperor?? If so, earthen statues => clay golems. Same as Guan-di, war god? Fire giants. Priest(ess) (Random) Priests are assigned the pantheon of one of the other roles at random on starting the game. Thus a human Priest can worship any of the 36 gods; elven Priests are always chaotic. Ranger (Roman) Lawful: Mercury Fire monsters? NNP. Neutral: Venus succubi / incubi Chaotic: Mars Dogs Rogue (Nehwon) Lawful: Issek Water monsters "waters of peace" from his jug. NNP. Neutral: Mog NNP Spiders Chaotic: Kos Monkeys. Samurai (Japanese) Lawful: Amaterasu Omikami snakes (twined on arms) Neutral: Raijin NNP God of thunder: same as next one. Chaotic: Susanowo NNP storm god: storm giants, fog clouds. Tourist (Discworld) Lawful: Blind Io NNP Floating eyes. Neutral: The Lady Quantum mechanics Chaotic: Offler NNP Crocodiles, both sizes. Valkyrie (Norse) Lawful: Tyr Wolves (should really be: they're scared of you.) Neutral: Odin Ravens. Chaotic: Loki NNP Chameleons (shapeshifter god). Wizard (Egyptian) Lawful: Ptah NNP Dwarves Neutral: Thoth Monkeys, apes. Chaotic: Anhur feathered head: ravens. 20. Monster errors At the "quaff potion early" decision, sometimes have monsters drink the wrong potion: acid or whatever. Humor. In muse.c, go to find_misc. Just above that, add: #ifdef YAFM #define MUSE_POT_ACID 10 #endif /* YAFM */ At the end of the routine, add: #ifdef YAFM /* And, in the heat of battle, the orc mistakes his blue potion of acid for a sky blue potion of gain level! The odds are low because he'll have several chances to screw up. */ nomore(MUSE_POT_ACID); if(obj->otyp == POT_ACID && !mtmp->mpeaceful && rn2(2000)) { m.misc = obj; m.has_misc = MUSE_POT_ACID; } #endif /* YAFM */ At the end of use_misc, add: #ifdef YAFM case MUSE_POT_ACID: mquaffmsg(mtmp, otmp); m_useup(mtmp, otmp); if (!resists_acid(mon)) { if (vismon) { pline("%s shrieks in pain!", Monnam(mtmp)); if(!objects[POT_ACID].oc_name_known && !objects[POT_ACID].oc_uname) docall(otmp); } else { You("hear a shriek of pain!"); } mon->mhp -= d(obj->cursed ? 2 : 1, obj->blessed ? 4 : 8); if (mon->mhp < 1) monkilled(mon, "", AD_ACID); } else { pline("%s looks a bit puzzled.", Monnam(mtmp)); if(!objects[POT_ACID].oc_name_known && !objects[POT_ACID].oc_uname) docall(otmp); } return 2; /* The calling routine doesn't distinguish between returned values of 1 and 2, just between zero and non-zero. */ #endif /* YAFM */ Sometimes pick up cockatrice corpse w/o gloves. 21. Minor talents Each class gets a minor talent: something of little practical value, but it would set off each class a bit. Archeologist automatically identifies and names mummy wrappings. "one of Ditmar's forgeries", "looks like a fake", "definitely not Egyptian", "Siamese mummy?" "duct tape", "butcher paper", "a wretchedly poor specimen", "something is wrong with this" "Modern day", "quite common", "not interesting" "typical" A {good / splendid / slightly damaged} specimen of a {Third dynasty / Ramses III era / Thutmose era} {priest / noble / artisan} Description type: bad routine good --------------------------------------- Cursed: 75% 20% 5% Normal: 20% 60% 20% Blessed: 5% 20% 75% Barbarian: Recognize booze. Start with a potion of booze? Can start quest when only lvl 12? Caveman: Immune to tripe (already there). Loadstones are #named "bad rox for throwin"? Healer: know when corpses are possibly or certainly off. Knight: [jumping] Virtuous: can resist foocubi removing clothing. Roll vs wisdom to get the "be virtuous?" option. Priest: sense "malignant (or benevolent) magic" in rings according to ring type? Detect demons as they are created? Water into booze by dipping finger. Ranger: talks to the animals: #chat with natural creatures has a chance of making them peaceful. "You soothe the angry/frightened monnam" Perhaps influenced by relative level & how hurt the monster is. cdfqruzJY except for hell hounds and hell hound pups. General rule: not intelligent (forget gnomes), not too stupid to be soothed (forget snakes), not hellish. Rogue: Rough ideas of ring values; can be off by 1 category. Need a fixed set of random offsets, though. Or just categorize as "low value" "standard" "high value". [Andreas Dorn:] Bare- handed attacks do a nymph-type steal, and sleeping monsters stay asleep. Samurai: [Already have several unreasonable advantages] Tourist: Recognize historic statues. Significant levels are mapped as soon as you arrive. (Oracle, Medusa, Minetown, Castle) "Why, this must be ... You check your guidebook for details." Valkyrie: Ravens are generated peaceful. Wizard: Picking up a spellbook => "The magic in this book does not feel particularly powerful / feels powerful / feels very powerful" for 1-200, 3-500, and 6-700 spellbooks. 22. ESP on soul, not minds Right now, ESP apparently sees things with minds. Let's change that to "sees things with souls", to make it match the genre. For the most part, nothing changes. Zombies are re- animated dead: there's no soul inside, so ESP sees nothing. If we say that mummies are re-animated by the angry spirit of the dead person, then ESP now sees them: no big deal. But: if your pet polymorphs into a zombie, your pet will still be visible by ESP. And ESP will show your pet *in its original form*. (Since we'll be tracking the original forms anyway, as part of this, #chatting should give you something like "The black dragon makes a harsh purring sound".) (Also, if you just killed a souled humanoid AND you're blind AND you have ESP, you see the ghost [shake its fist / mouth curses / snarl at you / look frightened and then relieved / try to continue attacking you] and then fade away. Except Rodney.)