Saginaw Pump Swap

SAGINAW PUMP SWAP

Anyone who owns a Ford with power steering has heard about the whining, hissing, and squeeling from the stock CIII pump.Web pages have many cures to quiet them. There are rigorous bleeding procedures, including vacuum. Others say use a bigger pulley to lower the RPMs.

I have tried everything and still I hear the whine in my 5.0 mustang..

One pump that doesn't whine is the GM Saginaw pump. It is quiet and robust. Even Ford uses it in certain heavy duty applications. Dodge does too, and several European carmakers.

There are aftermarket kits to put the pump in 5.0 but they come with brackets, and cannot use air conditioning. I wanted to have my cake and keep it. I did some junk yard investigating. The Saginaw comes in 2 sizes, the large old style P pump, and the newer style S pump that is mostly in front wheel drive vehicles with a remote reservior. The P usually comes with a cover called "the can of ham", however it also has other shapes. In Astro vans and some dodge minivans it has a round can. It also comes in a "dry" version with a remote reservior. I saw one in an Eagle Medallion, but felt the type with fluid around the pump would be quieter.

So with some eyeball measurements I bought a round P pump and came home with 2 brackets to fool with. One was for a Ford pump, the other GM. By rotating the brackets I saw it should be possible to make an adapter to mate the Saginaw into the 5.0 bracket. And so that's what I did, as explained below. [another way to do it would be to cut the aluminum GM bracket, align it in the 5.0 mount and have it welded. Or maybe even just drill the GM holes in the 5.0 bracket and use bolts and spacers.]

The following pictures aren't the greatest because my antique scanner is crapping out. The photos were much better.

Here is the pump at the wreckers still in its Astro van bracket. The hose at the top is running to a remote reservior. You can also see the Saginaw P pump has it's pressure fitting at the rear. The return line on saginaws can be placed in many different areas, including on the remote reservior.

To get to the point, here is the adapter bracket I created. It bolts to three Saginaw pump holes using the stock bolts, while the fourth hole is shared with the ford 5.0 bracket hole. The two other ford holes have 10mm nuts welded to them so that stock Ford bolts will bolt up.

Be aware that early Saginaws had 3/8 bolts while later models have 10mm. They are similiar but not quite the same.

Also be careful because it is possible to twist in a bolt so far that the pump housing cracks.

Double check the dimensions before final assembly. The adapter was just laid on the scanner and drawn over. I've included spacing rulers [as every drawing on the web should have!] but how it prints out may vary.
I'm sure different thickness of plate will work too.

Here is the bracket bolted to the pump. At the bottom is a cutout for the 'bellybutton' on the pump. This piece was made from a factory bracket, while the drawing above uses a flat plate.

One nut was turned down to clear, and one bolt had its' shoulder cut off.

Notice that the shaft is not centered. This occurred because I had to juggle the spacing of the bolt holes, and because it's a tight fit in the 5.0 bracket, but it turned out okay because it allowed the same fanbelt even with a larger pulley.

Here's the side view. The bellybutton pressure housing is just behind the line of the nuts.

The pump bolted into the 5.0 bracket. The bellybutton is just about to touch the back of the bracket. To move it forward would require grinding the aluminum, and then the bolt heads would soon hit anyway.

One stock bolt is used, another is shortened, and the shared bolt is longer.

I was going to use a remote reservoir and even found a nice one in the wreckers from a Probe. As I tried to figure out the bracketry for that I noticed a piece of exhaust pipe laying around. The neck from the stock ford pump would fit inside fairly snug, so I decided to use it instead.

With the pump on the engine the angles were figured out to clear everything, and it was cut and mig welded. Certain areas were brazed and then it was sandblasted and JB Weld was smeared on the seam to ensure it was leak free.

You also see that there are 2 fittings brazed to the bottom. One is the steering fluid return. The other is for another project I may do later.

The inside of the housing was cut rather crudely to let fluid in. The stock opening on the top was also brazed shut.

The other housing is the standard GM 'can of ham' housing used with saginaws. It came off very easily, whereas the round one had to be tapped off carefully, which bent the rim a bit. This is the sealing area so it needs to be carefully straightened.

When putting the pump together use the rear bolts to slowly pull it together and the seal won't be damaged.

Here's the finished comparison. Ford on the left, the Saginaw hybrid on the right. The hybrid is much fatter, but just fits into the stock mount.

The filler neck was crosshatched on the lathe to hold JB Weld better, and a Ford filler neck top was pushed onto the epoxy. The neck is about 2 inches taller than stock.

The finished housing was sprayed with black 'crackle' paint, which gave it kind of a stock plastic look.

Inside the pump is a pressure valve, or flow valve. You can see that the GM and Ford valves look pretty much the same. They even had the same diameter with my micrometer.

The one difference is that the GM valve can be taken apart by the nut on top and altered. Under the nut are thin washers, which adjust the pressure for different applications.

As they were so similar I decided to stay with the Ford valve for a better comparision of the pump.

To mate the pump to the rack the end of the Ford hose was cut off and an 'L' shaped tube from a Saginaw was positioned with a short piece of tubing inside. Then they were brazed together.

[proper brazing is just as strong as welding, and I've used it like this before, with no trouble.]

Tin foil protects the engine and a vice grip positions it and makes a good heat sink. It happens so fast the hose isn't damaged.

Early fittings have flares while later ones have o-rings, but the pump fittings screw into all pumps.

The plastic Ford pulley is on the left, and the GM on the right. They have different size center holes so won't interchange. The Ford could be bored out, but the GM fit and the same belt just barely got on.

The original photo was very tough to scan. This was taken a few years later with my digital camera, after the hydroboost swap was done. The high pressure line was redone to point toward the brakes first.

Orignally the pump pulley wasn't all the way on. Because of a different snout length the pulley could only be put on part way to line up properly with the belt. Stock is about 1 inch, while this one was at about 7/10ths.

It was on securely, but a 3/8 bolt and washers were run into the pump shaft hole 'just in case'.

I ran it for a few weeks with no problems, but it nagged at me so the pulley hub was altered.

First of all it had to be removed with a puller, so it was probably all right anyway.

The hub is welded on, so it was cut out on the lathe and rewelded further into the pulley. Obviously it has to be welded straight. A pulley puller still fits.
On the lathe it did have a slight runout, but on the engine it looks perfectly smooth.

So what was the end result? Great!

When I first filled it up and started the engine I thought the pump wasn't working, but it was. It was just quiet, unlike the Ford pump. Even with the same pressure valve the steering felt better somehow. Smoother, or nicer.

There was also no need to go through a lengthy bleed procedure. Just fill it and go.

Parking or turning fast, it is smooth and quiet. No negatives, all positives. I wish I'd done it years ago.

	Here is the pump at the wreckers still in its Astro van bracket. The hose at the top is running to a remote reservior. You can also see the Saginaw P pump has it's pressure fitting at the rear. The return line on saginaws can be placed in many different areas, including on the remote reservior.
	To get to the point, here is the adapter bracket I created. It bolts to three Saginaw pump holes using the stock bolts, while the fourth hole is shared with the ford 5.0 bracket hole. The two other ford holes have 10mm nuts welded to them so that stock Ford bolts will bolt up. Be aware that early Saginaws had 3/8 bolts while later models have 10mm. They are similiar but not quite the same. Also be careful because it is possible to twist in a bolt so far that the pump housing cracks. Double check the dimensions before final assembly. The adapter was just laid on the scanner and drawn over. I've included spacing rulers [as every drawing on the web should have!] but how it prints out may vary. I'm sure different thickness of plate will work too.
	Here is the bracket bolted to the pump. At the bottom is a cutout for the 'bellybutton' on the pump. This piece was made from a factory bracket, while the drawing above uses a flat plate. One nut was turned down to clear, and one bolt had its' shoulder cut off. Notice that the shaft is not centered. This occurred because I had to juggle the spacing of the bolt holes, and because it's a tight fit in the 5.0 bracket, but it turned out okay because it allowed the same fanbelt even with a larger pulley.
	Here's the side view. The bellybutton pressure housing is just behind the line of the nuts.
	The pump bolted into the 5.0 bracket. The bellybutton is just about to touch the back of the bracket. To move it forward would require grinding the aluminum, and then the bolt heads would soon hit anyway. One stock bolt is used, another is shortened, and the shared bolt is longer.
	I was going to use a remote reservoir and even found a nice one in the wreckers from a Probe. As I tried to figure out the bracketry for that I noticed a piece of exhaust pipe laying around. The neck from the stock ford pump would fit inside fairly snug, so I decided to use it instead. With the pump on the engine the angles were figured out to clear everything, and it was cut and mig welded. Certain areas were brazed and then it was sandblasted and JB Weld was smeared on the seam to ensure it was leak free. You also see that there are 2 fittings brazed to the bottom. One is the steering fluid return. The other is for another project I may do later.
	The inside of the housing was cut rather crudely to let fluid in. The stock opening on the top was also brazed shut. The other housing is the standard GM 'can of ham' housing used with saginaws. It came off very easily, whereas the round one had to be tapped off carefully, which bent the rim a bit. This is the sealing area so it needs to be carefully straightened. When putting the pump together use the rear bolts to slowly pull it together and the seal won't be damaged.
	Here's the finished comparison. Ford on the left, the Saginaw hybrid on the right. The hybrid is much fatter, but just fits into the stock mount. The filler neck was crosshatched on the lathe to hold JB Weld better, and a Ford filler neck top was pushed onto the epoxy. The neck is about 2 inches taller than stock. The finished housing was sprayed with black 'crackle' paint, which gave it kind of a stock plastic look.
	Inside the pump is a pressure valve, or flow valve. You can see that the GM and Ford valves look pretty much the same. They even had the same diameter with my micrometer. The one difference is that the GM valve can be taken apart by the nut on top and altered. Under the nut are thin washers, which adjust the pressure for different applications. As they were so similar I decided to stay with the Ford valve for a better comparision of the pump.
	To mate the pump to the rack the end of the Ford hose was cut off and an 'L' shaped tube from a Saginaw was positioned with a short piece of tubing inside. Then they were brazed together. [proper brazing is just as strong as welding, and I've used it like this before, with no trouble.] Tin foil protects the engine and a vice grip positions it and makes a good heat sink. It happens so fast the hose isn't damaged. Early fittings have flares while later ones have o-rings, but the pump fittings screw into all pumps.
	The plastic Ford pulley is on the left, and the GM on the right. They have different size center holes so won't interchange. The Ford could be bored out, but the GM fit and the same belt just barely got on.
	The original photo was very tough to scan. This was taken a few years later with my digital camera, after the hydroboost swap was done. The high pressure line was redone to point toward the brakes first. Orignally the pump pulley wasn't all the way on. Because of a different snout length the pulley could only be put on part way to line up properly with the belt. Stock is about 1 inch, while this one was at about 7/10ths. It was on securely, but a 3/8 bolt and washers were run into the pump shaft hole 'just in case'.
	I ran it for a few weeks with no problems, but it nagged at me so the pulley hub was altered. First of all it had to be removed with a puller, so it was probably all right anyway. The hub is welded on, so it was cut out on the lathe and rewelded further into the pulley. Obviously it has to be welded straight. A pulley puller still fits. On the lathe it did have a slight runout, but on the engine it looks perfectly smooth.