Roy's Info

Saw your "fix" on the Internet for the Maytag Neptune door wax motor problem. Interesting approach.

Do you want to know what the real problem is?

The original Q6 (MAC97A6) is a 400 volt part.
Don't replace Q6 with a MAC97A8 or the equivalent NTE 5656, as these are still 400 volt components.

You should have used a NTE5657 (600 volt) so that it won't happen again.

As it is, if your house voltage goes over 140 VAC at any time and this circuit is active at the time, that Q6 400 volt triac is going to eat it's shorts again.
That is why the new Maytag units have a sensor that shuts everything down if the house voltage goes over 133 VAC.

R11 is actually 3.9k Ohms, I hope you used a carbon, or carbon film resistor. A thin film metal oxide resistor will blow for the same reason the triac does. Thin film metal oxide resistors are resistors, but they are also high voltage sensitive.

If the wax motor reads approximately 1900 ohms at room temperature, it is probably ok. It will read less at higher temperatures and more at lower temperatures but not a lot. I think it's strange that Maytag blames the wax motor for the problem, As your experience shows, the wax motor isn't the problem, Q6 is. Use the 600 volt part and the problem is solved.

I know every young engineer will tell you that the 400 volt part is adequate, however, experience with other electronic things has shown me that a 400 volt triac on a 120 volt line is not adequate. The wax motor problem just proves it.

Mike's Info

Nice site, but I have a slightly different point of view on the problem. I've done considerable research on this:

The wax motor resistance ranges from 1200 to 1900 ohms. At 120 volts, this results in a current flow which may be between 63 and 100 milliamps (0.063 - 0.100 amp). Even if 200 volts were applied, the resulting current would be between 105 and 167 milliamps - WELL within the 600 milliamp limit of the MAC97A6, and CERTAINLY below the 400 volt rating. The MAC97A6 could handle this with NO problem.
And I had my Neptune in central Florida, the place with the most lightning strikes in the nation - the voltage there fluctuates all over the meter, and I never had trouble with it.

See, as long as the wax motor presents it's nominal resistance to the circuit, all will be well. The real problem IS the wax motor.

The wax motor uses a PTC thermal device to produce heat from the 120 volts fed to it. That's how it works. The heat makes a block of "goo" expand, and pushes the plunger out. When the goo cools down, a spring retracts the plunger. That device can, and will, change properties as it heats and cools, and occasionally, one will heat up and simply short out, partially due to moisture in the washer door, but not always. When this happens, it's internal resistance drops to zero, and a dead short is applied across the line voltage through Q6. I can assure you that at that point, it will not matter whether you have a MAC97A6 or an NTE5657 triac installed - it will be charred. As it dies, the Triac's gate and drain terminals will also short together, and it will try to draw the same current through the gate resistor, R11. It, too, will fry. If you make these components heavy-duty enough to last much longer, then the extra voltage and current will likely spread the damage further to other components.

What makes people dismiss the wax motor as a culprit, is that as it cools back down, the short goes away, and it seems to be normal again. It may, or may not short again on the next heat cycle... most likely not. It WILL, however, present a risk of it happening again. Make no mistake - if it has failed once, the likelyhood of a future failure is high.

Now realize that this is my opinion, and yours may be different, but to try to save 15 bucks by not changing out the wax motor after a failure is false economy, as you are very likely to have to replace Q6 and R11 again.

You can add a 1/2 amp rapid blow fuse in the circuit, which should protect the circuit board components in the event of a wax motor malfunction

Thanks again!

MB

Bob

* THE STAR E-MAIL - THANKS ROY *

Saw your "fix" on the Internet for the Maytag Neptune door wax motor problem. Interesting approach.

Do you want to know what the real problem is? Q6 (MAC97A6) is a 400 volt part. Replace Q6 with a MAC97A8 or as you used a NTE 5656, (400 volt) you should have used a NTE5657 (600 volt) and it won't happen again. As it is, If your house voltage goes over 140 VAC at any time this circuit is active for any reason, that 400 volt triac is going to eat it's shorts again. That is why the new Maytag units have a sensor that shuts everything down if the house voltage goes over 133 VAC. R11 is actually 3.9k, but 3.6 is close enough, and I hope you used a carbon, or carbon film resistor. A thin film metal oxide resistor will blow for the same reason the triac does. Thin film metal oxide resistors are resistors, but they are also high voltage sensitive. If the wax motor reads approximately 1900 ohms at room temperature, it is probably ok. It will read less at higher temperatures and more at lower temperatures but not a lot. I think it's strange that Maytag blames the wax motor for the problem, As your experience shows, the wax motor isn't the problem, Q6 is. Use the 600 volt part and the problem is solved. I don't know what your local shop charged you for the NTE5656, but I have some MAC97A8's coming. If you want one I'll send you one for a Loony plus postage. .

I know every young engineer will tell you that the 400 volt part is adequate, however, experience with other electronic things has shown me that a 400 volt triac on a 120 volt line is not adequate. The wax motor problem just proves it.

Roy

I just couldn't see junking the thing yet and buying something else. I found a website (Digi-Key Corp) that is sending me out the several Q6 Triacs at 50 cents each and the 3.9 Kohm resistors. The board itself is a little fried where the resistor burnt but I can probably jumper around the bad spot. The wax motor is only about $12 so I'll probably replace it too if the rest goes well and I get things working. In the meantime, I talked Maytag into providing a new control board, door lock mechanism and Pha kit for the moldy gasket all at half price (The machine is 6 years old and out of warranty). They'll warranty the parts for 2 years once I pay their guy to install it all.

Your fix sounds interesting. Not sure where I would put the relay or what relay to buy. I figure it lasted 6 years and I'll have extra triacs and resistors so I should be able to handle another meltdown if it happens.

Nice to be able to communicate with someone about this. Wives don't really understand our need to outsmart the machine.

Howard

I was pleased to find your chat page comments that should help me fix my Maytag "Moldtune" washer. I can clearly see that R11 resistor and the Q6 transistor are burned out. It sounds to me like you fixed the problem, at least temprarily, by replacing these without replacing the wax motor in the door lock mechanism? Is that true? Your other idea with the relay, etc is too complex for me but I will replace the wax motor or the whole door mechanism if necessary. Thanks for any suggestions or follow-up.

Howard

I have pulled your comments off the chat board concerning your Maytag
problem and would be interested in calling you, if you don't mind. Let me
know.Thanks.

Chuck

Well it fixed mine! bought triac and the resister @r11 learned to solder (easier than i thought)and got it going in 25 minutes THANKS for your site!!! Fixed my wifes watch while the solder iron was hot LOL

Ron

Another happy customer...Yours, that is!

R11 Q6 and the Wax motor in the door... Easy pie.

My wife thinks I'm a genius and my 13 old son got his first instruction in
the dying art of desoldering and soldering components. Thus, your fix has
restored my washer, enhanced my marital bliss and helped expand the mind of
the next generation.

A good day, indeed.

Thanks a million for your work in putting up the Web page and providing
real help to real people!

Peace!

CT

My wax motor measures around 800 ohms at room temperature on a digital multimeter, which is half what it should be. I decided to try an experiment to see if it still worked. I disconnected the wires from the wax motor and connected a power cord with mating connectors directly to it. After a few seconds the piston began to move, then there was a surprising pop and the flash of an arc inside the wax motor. However, the piston continued to extend and held the latch locked. When I removed power, the piston retracted when the wax cooled. I applied power again, and this time the piston extended without an arc. From this I conclude that there was some conductive path that had formed inside the wax to create a short circuit. Perhaps moisture was the cause, as Mike suggested. That conductive path has now removed itself! However, if I had simply replaced the control board components, this short circuit would have certainly burned out the new triac on the first use, no matter whether it was rated 400V or 600V.

I measured the resistance at the moment I removed power from the wax motor, and found it to be somewhere above 3.5K ohms and falling fast. The resistance dropped to 430 ohms, then as the device cooled it slowly rose to the 800 ohm value I had seen earlier. Since the resistance varies a lot with temperature, I decided that the resistance measure is not very reliable.

I next measured the current, and found it started at about 80mA, dropped to 35mA as the piston began to extend, and settled at 20mA when it reached full temperature. Since the wax motor is rated at 120mA, the measured current seemed perfectly reasonable, so I concluded that the wax motor still works. The only problem is that the design is defective such that short circuits can form and blow out the control board.

Unless the wax motor has been redesigned to cure this defect, I figured that a replacement wax motor was just as likely to form a short circuit after some period of use. So, I decided to follow your idea to put in a relay with beefy contacts. That way, if another short forms in the wax motor, it can just burn itself out again. This seems like the only permanent solution. If I put in a fuse, the fuse would just blow and I'd have to replace the wax motor again. I noted Arlen's concern about needing an RC snubber on the triac if driving a relay, but there is already one on the board (R46 and C24). As a belt-and-suspenders measure with the relay installed, I did follow Vince's suggestion to replace jumper JP18 with a 500ma pico fuse to protect the control board in case I screwed up the relay wiring or (very unlikely) the relay coil should short. I'm going to put a pico fuse in my sister's machine, too, since that is a quick and easy form of insurance.

After I installed the relay and repaired the control board with an NTE5657 replacement for Q6 and a new 3.9K resistor, it was time to test the repair. I selected the spin cycle and started the machine, but the relay did not actuate. I connected one probe of my voltmeter to AC neutral so I could measure the voltage on R11 with the other one. The end on the right is at line voltage. When I touched the probe to the end on the left, the relay closed! That told me the triac's gate was not being driven. Tracing the circuit on the board again, I saw that Q2 is the driver. Q2 is a KSP55 transistor. It measured low resistance in both polarities between its emitter and its base, whereas its neighbor Q1 did not, so I figured Q2 was fried, too. I replaced it with the closest match from my collection of spare electronic parts, a 2N4403. The 2N4403 is rated only 40V rather than 60V, so it might fail, but it seems to work. If it does fail, I'll find a better equivalent for the KSP55. Now the machine is back in business.

For those interested in the relay addition, here are some details.

The relay I found at the local electronics shop was an NTE R10-14A10-120, with 120VAC coil and 11A contacts. It has three poles when I only needed one, but that's OK. I decided to mount it on the back side of the control panel in the open space below the start/stop button (on the MAH3000AWW model at least) since both the white AC neutral wire (WH11) and the gray AC line wire (GR26) are easily accessible there. To allow lashing the relay in place with a plastic cable tie, I first drilled two holes in the plastic structure below the start/stop switch.

On my machine, some excess length in the brown wire (BR14) to the wax motor was wrapped around the wire bundle a few times near the wax motor. I unwrapped it to allow pulling up some slack at the control panel where I was going to mount the relay. I found the right brown wire by tracing from pin 4 of connector P7 on the control board and pulling on the wire. I cut the brown wire at the right spot to reach the relay terminals. The half going to the control board goes to one side of the coil (pin A on the relay) and the other half gets connected to one of the common contacts on the relay (pin 7). To tap into the neutral and line wires I cut away half an inch of insulation without cutting the wire, and then folded the wire so I could slip heat-shrink tubing over it and solder to the relay pin. However, using an 18AWG tap splice might be simpler. The white wire (WH11) goes to the other end of the relay coil (pin B) and the gray wire
(GR26) goes go the normally-open contact (pin 4).

Cost for this repair:

NTE R10-14A10-120 relay $10.49
NTE5657 2.49
3.9K 1/4W resistor 0.02
500ma pico fuse 0.40
------
Total cost 13.40 plus tax

-- Steve

The resistor value of R43 is the same as R42, 18K ohms. When my R11 Burnt, it also fried my R43. I picked up a board from my local service center to determine the resistor values.

Great Site.Thanks a million
Lonny

I didn't tried to fix it myself since I don't know enough. But I did manage to convince Maytag to not to charge me the parts. They charged me $109 for labour only. In the beginning they refused to cover any cost and quote me more than $500. I tried the second time, equipped with the new information from you web site, this time, they agreed to cover the parts. I need to emphasize that persistence is very important during with the service group, as least in north California.

Again, thanks for sharing.
Stanley

Now Maytag will fix this problem for free! (labor and parts) in US.

Call 1-800-688-9900

The class action lawsuit in US has been settled. God bless America! Where you can sue anyone for anything! (Canadians are so nice and smart.)

One day made the difference for our family. Our Neptune broken down last weekend, September 12, 2004. (First I found your website, and was attempted to fix it myself.) But I call them yesterday, they did not mention the settlement. And I called today, first there is recorded message about the lawsuit and settlement. And I made an appointment for this Thursday, they will come to fix it.

Another funny thing is that our maytag frig’s light is not on, and it is not the bulb. I will offer the maytag man a beer this Thursday, but he has to use his flashlight to get it!

I donot know if they ran the same TV commercial in Canada, where the maytag repair man has nothing to do. And he was trying to beat the frig door to see he could open it before the light comes on…

Anyway, thanks, and take it easy.

Bin

Regards,
Stephen
Golden, CO

I just finished reading the FAQ for the class action suit at http://www.maytagfrontloadsettlement.com/faq.html. It clearly covers the wax motor / control board problem. It will cover out of pocket repair / replacement expenses if they were spent before 8/9/2004. After that you must have Maytag try to fix the problem. Maytag has 1 or 2 chances to fix the machine and then they give you a certificate for a new machine. HOWEVER, that certificate is only for a *Neptune Top Loading* machine, and it's value is between $200 and $1000 depending on the age of your machine.

For our '97 machine that just yesterday showed the problem, getting a $200 cert. for a top loader (we like front loaders) is just not worth it. Guess I get out my soldering iron!

Rick

We had the classic failure-r11 smoked and the door lock light inop. No spin.
I pulled off the back top panel and saw the r-11 fried.
Then I read this site and called Maytag service
They came out today and replaced the wax motor and control board free of charge. Guy was done within 30 minutes.
All in all very happy with their respone.

Glad I had this site to get some background info on.

Geoff

Thanks

A month ago (early December) my wife complained that the washer was not going through the final spin properly on about half the loads. A load with 5-6 pair of jeans would never make it through.

I called out the local servicer who replaced motor control earlier in the year. They came out and ran their diags, had Maytag on the phone and nothing came up, said it was probably unbalanced loads. (Note: wife was not happy at all with this!).

I called Maytag service - raised hell about the lawsuit issues. They quickly sent out the motor control repair kit. The local repair company installed it. No help. Same problem.

The standard 'Lawsuit repair kit' does NOT fix this intermitent spin problem!

After reading up on problems and especially using the following site:

www.applianceaid.com/neptune.html

I decided the pump may be clogged or have something wrong with it. I removed the pump per the instructions at the webiste above and cleaned it out. There was noticable build up of some gunk in the section of the pump that had a 'boot' over a section and a red electronic device inserted through the boot. I found no other problem or foreign objects in the pump. Reinstalled pump.

So far 8+ loads, including one with 6 pair of jeans, no problems.

In summary:

Symptoms:
- Washer operates normally except no high speed spin on some or most loads at about the 8 minute mark of the timer.
- Washer does tumble clothes but appears confused. Backups up timer a couple of minutes (on our digital model) and tries to go through again. Finally appears to 'time out' and finishes cycle without high speed spin.
- Clothes are very wet. Water is still in bottom of tub.
- No error messages. No dock lock problem.

Fix (so far):
- Remove pump. Clean - especially in section covered by boot on assembly. Replace.

Hint: To get to pump easier remove the motor control unit. Unscrew two screws holding unit on base and slide forward. It is not necessary to unplug cables.

When removing pump. Look at how electical cables go on. They do go on in a specific way and can not be flipped. Loosen and remove hoses. Twist pump assembly from base of washer.

Good luck.

******************************************************************************************

Michael
Lexington, KY

I then found your web site and wanted to say thank you!!! I ordered the parts, including a new wax motor, decided to install another MAC97A6 & 3.9K 1/4 Watt resistor, and all is fine. (I’ll have to go back and install the pico fuse.)

Now I would like to return the favor. When I bought the parts, a purchased several extras, and even if it blow s again, I won’t need them all. If you are willing to post this email alias:
ten.nozirev AT 6q_11r_enutpen
(It is reversed and you will need to replace “AT” with the symbol.) Those who send me a message, I will mail them one MAC97A6 and a 3.9K resistor. I only bought 20 extra so act fast! January 2005.

Thanks again for an excellent web site.
-Mike

Thanks for the great info. It helped me fix my stacked MUG2000AWW Neptune. Below is the $0 -yes zero cost fix that 'works' for me.
It had very light use since I purchased it in 1998. It died with a heavy load of towels at the start of the spin cycle. The 'door locked 'light would not come on and it would not spin. There was a burnt electrics smell.
I took the 2 panels off and tested the wax motor by trying the spin cycle again. It did not extend it's plunger. The plunger activates two microswitches. I 'fixed' the 'door locked light switch' above the spring of the wax motor plunger by jamming closed it with the clip from the cap of a ball point pen. Anything that resembles the blade of a screwdriver and is about 1 inch long might work.
The second microswitch is activated by the plunger on the door lock (which is first pushed by the wax motor plunger).This is the 'door lock spin enable switch'.I removed the switch by removing one screw and twisting it off.Then I used a self adhesive pad to stick the microswitch plunger flush with the surface of the switch and then made several tight turns with good quality insulating tape. Any means of closing the switch will work ,or use a jumper.
The machine works but............
1. It won't switch off. When it gets to the 'off' position on the rotary control knob, It rotates slowly for a second or two then pauses for a say 30 seconds, then rotates again and so on. You can end it all by pressing the 'stop/start' switch.
2.The 'door locked ' light is on anytime the door is closed but in fact the door is not locked. This is a safety hazard if you have inquisitive children. I use it as a warning to leave the door open when not in use to help reduce the mold problem. I have a spray bottle of 100% bleach that I squirt in the drain of the seal and in the bottom of the drum.Just rinse it before you add a colored load of washing.
** What modification can I do to make the machine stop at the end of the cycle? There must be a way to make a different connection to the spin enable switch?
Hope this helps someone else. I was really stuck because I have a custom fit space for the Neptune in the kitchen and no other high capacity stackable would fit. I didn't have the $1800 to replace it either !
Tony


Anthony

Greetings Leo Dave!
I saw you page on the Maytag R-11 problem and I really appreciate all the comprehensive info you have there. Because my machine is under recall in the United States pursuant to a consent decree, mine was repaired this afternoon without cost to me.

I inspected my board, and yes, all the smoke was let out of the R-11 resistor. The Triac was in good condition. For whatever reason, it survived. FYI, the number on the OEM Triac was HC-559C-LC in case that is useful to anyone.

The factory tech says that the problem is the wax motor. It gets tired and then starts pulling too much current- BBQing the R-11 resistor and the triac. The new and improved cure for this is that Maytag has now abandonned the wax motor and has replaced it with a standard solenoid door lock. The added benefit is that now you no longer have to wait 2 minutes after the machine stops spinning before the door unlocks. And, it reduces the likelyhood of future fried circuit boards. He recommends that consumers install a surge protector in between their power outlet and the washer. He also said that the same wax motor that makes the R-11 puke is causing problems in their dishwashers. The wax motor releases the latch on the soap door in their dishwashers.... I happen to have one of these in my kitchen.... Hmmmmm.....

For your information, I have the contact info and links to the claims administrator handling the Maytag class action settlement posted below. Great site and thanx for the info!

Contact Info for Maytag Claims Administrator:
Phone: (800) 211-5201 or (415) 884-1100 Fax (415) 382-6565.
Or write to us at:
Rosenthal & Company
300 Bel Marin Keys Blvd., Suite 200
Novato, CA 94949-5634

Or send us an email at:
info@rosenthalco.com
Link:
http://www.macyswestaccessclaims.info/contactus.htm

{LeoDave: I think this link is now dead.}

re: http://members.shaw.ca/gavb/

Your Maytag "R11-Q6" repair page is great! Please feel free to add my experience. I am attaching some photos, too.

A friend was told it would be $400 to repair his Neptune washer and I found your page on the web. It is amazing to me -- not only have people come up with solutions, people have hacked the washer to make improvements!

The symptoms on this washer -- an MAH4000AWW -- matched the page.
(The file, "before-burned-R11.jpg" shows the burned resistor.)

I bought a new control board and wax motor from repairclinic.com and the washer worked! I went one more step and replaced the faulty components on the old board, along with a few "upgrades" to improve reliability, put the old board back in and that worked too! Now I'll return the new board.

"control-board-in-place.jpg" shows the control board, to help people know which wires go to which connectors.

What I did, all as instructed on your page:

- Replace wax motor
- Replace R11 and Q6 (after-replaced-R11-Q6.jpg, attached).
- Add an 0.5A pico fuse (in place of JP18, between R62 and R46, near connector P7)
- I also had to run some wire to repair a trace on the printed circuit board, which had been damaged when R11 blew.
(R11-replaces-board-trace.jpg, attached)

and After-replaced-R11-Q6.jpg

Parts:

From repairclinic.com

Item #: 775784
Description: Machine control board.
Price: $191.80 but will not be keeping this since I fixed the old board.

Item #: 1063620
Description: Wax motorPrice: $17.30
Quantity: 1
Item Total: $17.30

From http://www.mouser.com/

Mouser # 511-Z00607MA
Mfr # Z00607MA
ST Triacs, TO-92 0.8 Amp 600 Volt
5 at $ 0.450=$ 2.25

30BJ250-3.9K
30BJ250-3.9K
Xicon 1/4W 5% Carbon Composition Resistors, 1/4W OR,WH,RD,GD
2 at $ 0.220=$ 0.44

576-0251.500M
251.500
Littelfuse Fuses - Axial Lead, Radial Lead, and Cartridge w/ Axial Leads 125V .5A - RoHS non-compliant
3 at $ 0.390=$ 1.17

Net outlay is probably $25-50 with shipping (depending on how much of a hurry you're in).

Moe

Though I’m no electronics wiz. I might be able to get someone to help… Would like to know where to get the parts (the R11 resistor and the Q6 Triac) as well as a schematic - the web site you referenced (http://mrappliance.com/corporate/repairmanual/sbrvrs/xmb_neptune_mah3000.pdf) no longer works.

{Leodave: No but the link on my site still does...try it... Manual for the MAH3000}

Thanks for your original notes, and for your help, if you so choose.

Rgds,

Dave

I'm going to try and repair our Maytag washer using the method described by Leo.

We have the stackable model, and our washer model is MHW2000AWW--can you tell me where the control board is located??

Thanks, I'll follow up on your site if I am successful.

H.U.

Maytag sent someone out - twice - to finally fix the mold/mildew problem in the rubber boot. Twice because the first time the plastic door insert was cracked. While they were here, why didn't they replace the controller with one that fixes the "wax motor" issue?

Wax motor? What a bizarre arrangement. Why not use a solenoid on a simple R/C timer? And put the sucker on a relay or fuse the line if there's a chance of the motor shorting and taking out the switching transistor.

Well, thanks to this web site (no thanks to Maytag - they refused to fix it and instead said I can get a certificate for an inferior machine) I have the answer to the question "what's the value of these charred components?

In attempting to diagnose our problem I considered that the issue might be a defective door lock switch. So I located the leads coming from the switch, exposed the wiring, and jumpered them. She spins and completes a cycle but at the end the washer just keeps on trucking. It expects the "wax motor" to time out and release the door lock switch. This then allows the crude mechanical timer to advance.

So for those who are brave and just want to get some laundry done while waiting on parts (refer to the wiring diagram): put a jumper between pins 1 and 7 of CONN3. This will short out the door lock spin enable switch, and your unit will now complete a cycle. For all my Red State friends, do this with the unit unplugged. Or if you only want to do this *one time* in your life, keep it plugged in and then stand on a pile of wet laundry. Be certain all your final affairs are in order.

Remember: the door is NOT locked. Don't open the door until the cycle is over, ok?

I just contacted Maytag, and they immediately opted to give me the certificate with no option for repair. I fought them for about a half an hour about it, but with no effect. Has anybody out there run into this as well and still managed to get them to cover the service and parts?
Please respond to Leo Dave, and I'll check back the web page for responses.

Thanks!
Bruce

MAH5500AWW

Scott

I have a Maytag MLE2000AYW (Stacked!)
You can add this model to your list.

Searched for the symptions (no spin), found your site.

My wax motor reads 876 ohms room temp. About 1/2 of what Maytag states. It also works, extends in ~30 secs. But, must be bad...

Found the blown Q6 and burnt R11!

Photo attached. Enjoy.

I was very pleased to find this site. Thanks.

(Found many others also)

NB: also had wax motor problem in a Maytag dishwasher soap dispenser, became very slow. (Dishwasher now gone, installed an ASKO - its VERY quiet.)

Carl

First, a little background. Eight months ago, my wife and I made an interstate move to a new(to us) home with appliances that included a MAH3000AWW and matching dryer. In my naivety, I was quite pleased because in addition to fact I wouldn't have to pay to move my washer/dryer(a nice 4 year old WORKING Whirlpool gold set), a few years prior, I had seen this machine get a good write up. Well, my folks, who were local, get the Whirlpools and I get the "upgrade", and we are happy until we see the class action info. in the January, Consumer Reports. At this point my wife and I graduate to somewhat concerned but happy.

February gets here, and the washer semi-croaks. We call Maytag and find out that since our washer is seven years old, we are S.O.L.
Maytag says we can submit for the purchase certificates for a new top Neptune top loader,($300 whoopee) but any repair costs will be out of my pocket.

BTW, a gentlemen who answered the class action line said it hasn't been published yet, but the certificates will also be valid on a new front loader if you want to go there again.

Well, I'm not one to give up without a fight, and my symptoms are similar to the wax motor/control board/motor control problem but intermittent. So, I find a few websites (members.shaw.ca/gavb/, fixitnow.com(now Appliantology.org), www.applianceaid.com/neptune.html,
etc.) and dive in. Low and behold, intermittent is good and bad. Good because I have no smoked resistors or blown fuses and bad because I am now without an easy diagnosis and fix.

So after too much head scratching, only one beer(big mistake not going to the store first), and staring into this thing from what I think is every possible angle, my trusty Fluke and I start into the real nitty gritty of the circuit. All easily accessible items are checking out so the frustration level is rising. I start chasing the out of balance circuit and everything still seems to be working so I'm starting to doubt my control board though all appears well. Fortunately, I decide to use my eyes and flashlight one last time. So, I stand on my head and look in the bottom back corner of the washer where the wires from the strut switch run. Low and behold, in a pile of rusty dust, two orange wires are lying against the cabinet and something is not according to Hoyle.

Well, if you let a 16 AWG wire connected to a vibrating strut rest against a metal cabinet that doesn't move and add a little moisture, eventually, you will rub the insulation off your wire and occasionally short the circuit. A butt splice and little electrical tape can work wonders if you can just find the place to put them. :-) Well, I am now feeling like a genius and ready to go to the store for a sixer to celebrate. However, I can't leave well enough alone. I've been wondering about my motor based on a noise it was making, and without actually troubleshooting it, I had just assumed I had the motor control board problem mentioned in the lawsuit. Now though, I've seen the test on the service sheet that Maytag left on the back of the control board.

MAYTAG SHOULD BE SUED OVER THIS!(irony intended) There a two tests.

The second tests the continuity of the motor windings and says it can only be run after the first test, which supposedly tests the motor control board. If the first test fails, the bulletin says to replace the board before continuing to the second test. All the second "test"
does is tell you which wires go from the board to each motor winding and what the winding resistance should be. Additionally, it let's you know that there should not be a connection between the motor windings and the motor frame(or each other duh). If you have a bad motor or wiring harness, your service man has now replaced the motor control board FOR NO REASON.

Due to strange circumstances(the wire would make up when I unplugged it from the motor to facilitate easier fluke probing) I spent half an hour to realize the following. My motor appears to be fine. However, in my Maytag, they took the wires as they start to rise up to the motor from the bottom of the machine and wrapped them in spiral wrap to hold them together and "protect" them. They then proceeded to clamp this wire bundle to the bottom of the washer With A Metal Clamp! Obviously, a spiral wrap is not a solid protective layer. The sharp edge of the clamp found its way through one of the gaps in the spiral wrap and had cut one of my motor leads into an open circuit. Additionally, it had started cutting into the insulation on the other motor leads and it was likely only a matter of time before it shorted two leads together and damaged the control board. Another butt splice, some electrical tape, and a plastic clamp without sharp edges and electrically I'm as good as new?

I highly recommend you check for these wiring construction problems if you have a "vintage" front loader before they bite you or your control board.

Now, since I still have my original wax motor and control boards without any apparent damage, what should I do next? The relay, surge suppressor and fuse ideas sound like good protection for the board, but can I do anything to preempt the wax motor problem? My reading seems to indicate the solenoid lock is not an option for my model. Is this the case, and if so, is there a replacement part that is supposed to be any more reliable than the original? Also, what about the wax motors in the fabric and bleach dispensers? I've seen nothing regarding these so I'm guessing they are not a common failure point, but I still wonder. Additionally, I only have slight mildew, and currently, no unpleasant odors so I’m going to sanitize periodically and keep my fingers crossed unless there is another cheap fix since Maytag won’t help with a new boot or door.

How about an upgrade, any idea what would it take to add the temperature control feature to this machine? Is the sensor in a water valve with which I could replace the old one, or is it more complicated?

Finally, are there any other items you've heard of that I might want to look into? If my machine continues to live, I may just take them up on $300 off a new machine in a couple of years(the certificates are only good for 24 months when they finally send them) or just see how long this one will last.

Thanks for your patience.

J. Mark

In the metro Atlanta, Georgia (USA) area I found 4.7K Ohm resistors (carbon film of course) at my local RadioShack (5 pack for $0.99). I checked with an electrical engineering friend and he advised that the 4.7 would be fine to replace the R11. The Q6 Triac was more difficult to track down. I found it at ACK Radio (http://www.acksupply.com/).
I bought 5 @ $1.35 each just to be safe.

If this problem recurs I may install the pico fuse at JP18 and the in line fuse above the wax motor.

Thanks again to all who have contributed.

Brett

I just experienced the wax motor short and the R11 fire along with the Q6 pop. I am now having water fill and timer problems, like it doesn’t fill and the timer is balky (most likely due to the water issues). I replaced the 4 triacs, but problems still exist. Are there resistors to change as well?

Better yet, does ANYONE have a schematic of the board?

I’m pretty sure the board is the culprit as I get a shot of water every now and then, but I’ll be checking the valves/solenoids tonight.

Thanks!

Bill

It's Feb. 11/05 and 2 days ago, my Neptune MAH4000 refused to spin at high speed and the Door Lock light did not come on. I guess I've been one of the lucky ones since this is the first time it failed since I bought it in Dec 99.

I called Maytag and they said that they would not service it free of charge. They said I had to pay for the labor & parts and then submit a claim form to the class action lawsuit. The lawsuit states that they may at their election, make a repair attempt or simply give me a $500 coupon towards the purchase of a Neptune Top Loader. After questioning them at length about this, they said they would not pay for any repairs. All I would get would be a certificate for an overpriced new washer.

Since the repairs from Maytag would cost $400, and I had no idea how to fix the problem myself, I started thinking about just buying a new washing machine (NOT one from Maytag!). In my search to find opinions of washing machines I came across many sites of furious Neptune customers.
One led me to your site.

Today, I replaced the wax motor, R11, Q6, added the inline fuse and my wife is pleased as can be with a fully functioning washer. All for less than $25.

Thanks again for your help. It really made my day!
Dave

I am very confused. My washer will not spin and no locked door light is on. I have a soaked load sitting in the washer.
As much as i wish I could do the repair myself - I can't.

My washer was purchased in '99 and it is a MA3000. I need a washer now,.
My question is if I have it repaired will I be reimbursed or do I try for the credit. I really don't want to give Maytag any more money.
Any suggestions??
I am in MA if that matters.

1) You do not recommend repairing the board. I do, with qualifications. 1: IF! The board has not been seriously burned. and
2: That you change Q6 out with an MAC97A8 rather than the "as issued" MAC97A6. At the same time change Q3, Q9 and Q17 with MAC97A8's. The "as issued" MAC97A6, 400 volt triac, is the problem with the door (Q6), the timer motor, (Q3) the cold water valve, (Q9) and the hot water valve (Q17). R11 is a 3.9K 1/4w 5% CARBON FILM resistor.

If the wax motor has a metered resistance of 1900 ohms ±5% or so at room temperature, and has no obvious signs of smoke, it is probably still good. The wax motor uses a NTC metal oxide varistor as a heater, it may read 10% higher or lower then the 1900 ohms depending upon its temperature. Contrary to Maytag's belief, the triac (Q6) failing, takes out the wax motor and R11, not the other way around.

The second is on your site, which do you recamend?

John

Again thank you so much for the information -

Respectfully -

Kristie

Here's my take on the design and issues. We had the same R11/Q6 problem - after 7 years, but the service guy just replaced the control board about 6 months ago as a matter of course when replacing the boot with mold buildup.

As a former electrical engineer, I had some desire to investigate the real issues. First of all, let's talk about the triac break down voltage: Lets not forget that the 120 volt line is comprised of a sine wave with an RMS value of 120 volts. That means a peak to peak voltage excursion of 120 volts x 2 x 1.414 or 339.36 volts peak to peak without spikes, surges etc. Now there are certain capacitors in the triac circuits that based upon the R/C time constant and capacitive phase shift could feasibly provide the negative (or positive side of the sine wave at 169.68 volts while the actual AC input on the other side swung the same amount in the opposite direction -169.68 volts, or a combined peak to peak voltage of 339.36 volts without line spikes, excess line voltages, inductive surges etc. So is a 400 Volt (Gate to Anode breakdown) triac sufficient? - You be the judge, but I'll stick with the 600 volt version myself and leave way for inductive surges, high line voltages etc.

The other interesting factor is the wax motor failure issues and modes - you know, the chicken and egg thing... . I just had to tear mine apart. It seems that in the exact area that mounts the Piezo heating element, there was evidence of long-term heating of the case material that touches the element. That evidence was carbon buildup from burning of the wax motor case piezo heating element mounting area! Now, we all know that carbon has conducting properties that could easily, once there is a burning or blackening of that small area of the inside of the wax motor case, cause a extra or additional conductive path, if not an outright low resistance short. Take the heat away, the element shrinks a bit and there is no more contact with the carbon buildup area. Just a theory, but mine sure seems to demonstrate that well and it would easily explain the decreased terminal resistance on bad or questionable wax motors, particularly those that blow the circuit one time and then seem to work the next. My suggestion... always replace the wax motor as cheap insurance if you have had a board failure, particularly if the terminal to terminal resistance on the device is substantially below the stated or suggested resistance of about 1500-1900 ohms. (Mine that failed was 840 ohms, and I'm certain the internal carbon from the charred housing helped lower that value, if not by providing a low resistance short when hot).

So, for what it's worth, that's my take. In any event, a bad design with lots of room for failures... shame on you Maytag... next time hire some seasoned engineers who are online with your so-called premium-brand status. Let's all hope the merger with Whirlpool fails and you don't end up polluting that line of appliances as well.

Mike

While my R-11 and Q-6 looked ok, an e-mail said maybe the Q-6 is shot, so I replaced it with a 600V triac, leaving in the R-11, which metered 3700 ohms, give or take, up to specs.

No problem to replace the Q6.

Except just no results. That's right, the thing still wouldn't spin.

I tried fooling the machine by holding in the door light control, holding down the inner door latch, and closing both the door lock and spin enable switches, while pushing the start button with the machine set on spin. No good.

So I went back to square one, using the troubleshooting sheet that came built into the machine. It passed all the tests until I ran across this sentence there: "...if you have continuity between the spin enable switch and connection P3-7, replace the control." Is this another sample of Maytag's ineptitude? The continuity from the control to the spin enable switch all takes place south of the control, so why replace it if the wire is in one piece??

Anyway, if anybody out there sees this and has a suggestion, I'll give it a try.

I had to buy a $10.00 minimum and pay $5.00 shipping (Ack), so I have a few 600V, 0.6a triacs (MAC97A8) that I will sell for $2.00 each postpaid. Also some 600ma Buss 5x20mm fast blow fuses (GMA-6/10 BUS), also $2.00 each PPD. If you want one of each, which was all I needed, just send $3.00. (May/05) Contact goneape@hostgorilla.com

There's a page with the resistor codes here:
http://www.rdrop.com/users/tedpet/resistor.htm

Thanks for the page Leodave, and if you're paying to have it hosted, contact me, I'll put it up for free, no strings.

-Chuck

Again I wanted to say THANKS for saving my yard sale find.

Tamara
Grass Valley, CA

Thanks for any info!!

John V

I recently replaced the spinner ball bearings in my Neptune MAH3000, but have had no other problerms. At that time I also added a 500ma fuse to the wax motor as per M. Little. Off hand, have you heard of anyone who has also done this and has had the fuse blow? In other words, does this fuse actually protect the control board (R11, etc.)? Dave: I'm sure it helps
Did your relay work? Dave: It worked fine, unfortunalty I have now moved and sold the machine with the house, so I can't report in it's status any longer. But it did work for over 2 years problem free with the new parts, the relay and the surge protector.

Thanks for the great & useful web page!!

Dave, H

Hey, your solution works. We have a Maytag Neptune MAH3000AWW and have spent more than $500.00 over the past few years on this miserable machine. The repairman immediately knew what the problem was, but I was reluctant to spend another $250.00 plus for the wax motor and the board, especially for a 2 cent transistor. I tried to get away with replacing the transistor alone, but ended up replacing the wax motor, R11 resistor, and the Q6 Triac--Walla! The door locks, and the machine spins for less than 40 bucks. Your website saved us a bundle, and I suspect that the 600 volt Q6 will solve the problem indefinitely.
Hey, isn't this a factory defect? Shouldn't Maytag replace all of this stuff for free--and why don't they teach their repairman how to solder? Dave: All good questions, some answered on the site already.

Ralph.W., PhD, Redding, CT.

Mark L.

The solution sounded sooo easy. Only to find out that my board doesn't have a Q6. The fix to the spin cycle/no door latch light problem was right down my symptoms. The wax motor measured 1200 ohms cold and 1500 ohms hot, it started extending at 55 seconds, with a small click, fully extended at 100 sec. The new wax motor measures 1000 ohms cold and 1500 ohms hot, it started extending at 35 seconds, fully extended at 60 seconds. (far from the 1900-7200 ohms specified). So I removed the motor contol board, only to find that it didn't look like the one on your web page. No Q6. Nothing shows burnt. R-11 looks good. My Motor Control PC shows like the one at mlittle.com/appliance/neptune Model AA19680, P/N 6 2702240, ID 225622908.
Unit Serial Number 25102515UF.

Any help out there? (If you can help email LeoDave and I'll forward to RJ, Thx Dave.)
Much Appreciated,
RJ

Great web pages.

....----====If you have RJ's Problem --Check out KEN's Pointer to looking in the wrong place. ====-----....

From: Ken
Subject: RJ
Hi Leo,

RJ, who is looking at the "motor control" board, found that R-11 looked fine and he couldn't find Q-6.
Please tell him he's looking at the wrong board. He needs to be looking at the "machine control" board.
It can be found by opening the panel behind the front controls, i.e.
   Panel behind ON/OFF button, temperature selection, Selection knob (top back gray panel)

Thanks Leo. Your forum is helping a lot of people. We need more people in the world like you.

Thanks again,
Ken 

You are one heck of a great person to go through all of this for us Neptune owners.
Thank you so much for saving me $179.

Pathinton@.....

Thank you for taking the time to email, that makes it all worth while...and I'm sure there are a quite a few happy people out there who don't email me too. :-)

Owners Solution to Mold and Smell Problem in Neptune

I own an MAH4000 that I bought about six months ago at a yard sale for $75.00. When I tried it I found that it was filled with mold and would not spin. After reading your excellent website I replaced the R-11 resistor, the Q6 triac and the wax motor. I also protected one leg of the wax motor with an AGC-1/2 fuse. So far the machine has run flawlessly. I solved the mold with a 2 step approach. I first sprayed about 1 quart of pure bleach into the door seal and drum of the machine, shut the door and let it sit in the garage for about one week. When I opened the door about 99% of the mold was gone. When I looked closely there was still mold down in the pores of the door seal, but none actively growing. I might add that this machine had not been upgraded with the new type door seal kit. The mold was very minor at this point, so I took the machine upstairs and put it into service. We were thrilled with how well the machine washed our clothes and both decided that if we could control the mold and smell problem we would keep the machine. Initially I would check the machine daily for mold in the door seal and target any I found with a 50/50 bleach and water solution. We also take a towel and dry out the door seal, door, tub and the soap/bleach/softener dispenser area every time we use the machine. We keep the dispenser area spotlessly clean. We leave the dispenser door and the washer door open all the time. There is absolutely no mold growing in the door seal of our machine. Rachel is extremely sensitive to allergens but has no problem with the clothes washed in this machine. It smells fresh and clean inside. I now check the machine about twice weekly but I continue to find no mold and have not even had to spray the door seal with bleach. I think the key to solving the mold and smell problem is to keep it dry and leave the doors open when not in use. I also plan on replacing the wax motor yearly as insurance. It only takes about 5 minutes to replace once you figure out how to get to it. I hope this helps folks who own these machines. It has solved our mold and smell problem so far.

Rachel G.

First of all, thank you so much for the information. My wife was pulling her hair out once our washer headed south. It's unclear to me whether this came before, during, or after our dryer plug and outlet fried. A few things I thought you (or your readers) might be interested in:

(+) Always be sure to unplug your unit before disassembling it. Just a reminder.

(+) On the stackable neptune, the main controller board is attached to the top of the unit. Took me a while to find it. Easiest way to get to the board is to undo the 4 screws on the top of the machine.
2 are in the front corners, and two are offset from the right side (as you face the front) of the machine. Once you've done this, you can pull the top of the face of the dryer away from the unit enough to uncover 4 more screws at the top of the machine -- two on either side. Once you take these screws out, you should be able to lift the top from the front enough to retrieve the main controller board.

(+) Again, on the stackable neptune, the wax motor is hidden behind a panel just above the washer door. The easiest way to get to it is to first undo the two screws (one on each side) on the slanted panel just below all the controls. Remove this slanted panel and you should be able to find a screw pretty much in the center of the unit, just inside the lip you just exposed. Mine was underneath a bundle of electrical cables. Once you unscrew this, you should be able to lift out the panel that covers the wax motor.

(+) I've never soldered anything before in my life, but was able to do this reasonably easily.

(+) In the SF Bay Area, you can find the necessary parts at R & D Electronic Parts in Milpitas. Interestingly enough, they even had a printout of your webpage behind the counter. I was asking the guy about the NTE triac and he said, "Neptune?" I had to chuckle that he knew exactly why I was looking for the part.

I love the internet. :-)

Cheers,
--Doug

{LeoDave: Just getting your e-mail made my day LOL, makes it worth the effort. I would love to know how many other shops have my webpage posted up? and thanks for taking the time to add more useful info, I don't get time to reply to every e-mail, especially the ones asking about other problems as I am not an electronics or appliance expert, but posting this into the feedback doesn't take long and benefits so many other... hope your fix last a while...I added the surge protector, sounds like you might be wise getting one too...have a great day, every day. Cheers, Dave.}

Last year my Neptune stopped draining and all I could think is oops, I should have listened to
all the warnings sent in the mail. Curious to test my hand at home repairs, I figured I would give
Google a chance and came across your website. I was SO grateful, I thought for sure my problem
was the same as yours with clothes coming out sopping wet after a wash.

I located the three screws on top of the machine, removed the cover to get at the control board expecting
to see the blown resistor that was so well documented. To my great surprise and dismay, the resistor was fine.
Stumped I figured, back to basics, if the water isn't draining the hose must be plugged. I disconnected
the drain hose and lowered it to be below the tub to drain all the water out of the tub. This worked well, all the
water came rushing out into a bucket. But then I figured, if the water all came out that easy, it can't be plugged.

I undid the four screws on the door and pulled off the front panel. With mirror and flashlight I was able to get to the little
pump at the base of the machine. I disconnected the hose from the tub to the pump and soon discovered the problem,
a piece of curved metal was lodged into the water pump. Back to google and a quick searched turned up the number
one cause of repairs in washing machines was the wire from underwire bras coming loose in the wash and
getting lodged in the pump. They even had a picture of what an underwire bra wire looked like. I figured my wife
would have mentioned that there was a reason that one breast was hanging lower then the other, but all she said was,
"oh, there it is".

I removed the wire and everything was back to normal. I went back to thinking the lawsuit was a lot of bunk and
that somehow I had dodged the dreaded blown resistor/ Wax motor problem. I was the one in a million customer
who would NOT have the problem. That was until last weekend.

The washing machine stopped draining again. After grilling my wife and getting a full accounting of all underwires, I
opened up the front and checked the pump again, this time it was clean! Then I recalled your website and anxiously
opened up the control board again lilke a kid at christmas and sure enough, the blackened resistor was staring back
at me!

A few clicks to mouser.com to get the resistor and another to repairclinic.com to get the motor and four days
later I had the parts in the mail. Pulled out the control board, marking all the wires so I could figure out where
they would go back in, then removed the control board and soldered it. Then figured out how to remove the
wax motor (instructions came with the motor thank goodness!). Thirty minutes later my Neptune was up and
running again for less then $30.00. Four loads and counting...

Thanks so much for your website, a true public service!

Regards,
Tom

{LeoDave: Jan 2006 - Thanks for taking the time to write Tom, I enjoyed that one }

Source for Parts for the Maytag Neptune

I'm probably just one of thousands that you have helped save hundreds. I want to say thank you.

My biggest challenge was finding the parts, so I thought I'd contribute the online store that I used ... for the good of the cause. I only needed to replace the Rll and the Q6. You'll have plenty of resistors left over, but I wouldn't grouse about "wasting" a few pennies when it saves about US$3000. Shipping and handling cost will be about double the actual parts cost.

The vendor that I used is Unicorn Electronics located at http://www.UnicornElex.com/.

Here are the parts that you need:

NTE5657 Triac-600VEM 0.8A
Item #: 49-6272
Price: US$3.63

3.9K Ohm 1/4 W Carbon Film Resistors 50 Pack Item #: 10-8086
Price: US$1.99

Thanks much,

- Scott

Maytag R11/Q6 Problem

Maytag model MLE2000-AZW washer/dryer combo

Parts 613-244-4425
Machine Control Board part 22004325 $317.95
Wax Motor part 12002535 $ 23.85
Belt Kit part 12001788 $ 23.85

Q6 Triac NTE 5657 $6.64
R11 Resistor 3.9 K ohms $1.87 for 4

Solder pieces into board: $20.00 plus tax

Thanks for your help,
Kyle C.

{LeoDave: Feb 2006 - Kyle, (and anyone else) Yes, I think the recommendation it to change the Wax Motor.
I personally reused my old wax motor and stopped the it from causing me a problem again by ISOLATING it using a Relay.
This is slightly more advanced DIY as you are changing things. Even a new wax motor could do the same thing as the old one in time..
Also add a surge protector and/or the fuse on the wax motor connection to the circuit board as this will blow BEFORE your new Q6/R11

Hope that helps everyone,
Cheers.}

Ran across your site. Read up on your fix. Went to R&D Electronic Parts in Milpitas, CA to get the components. Got the wax motor at APED appliance parts in San Jose, CA.
The guy at APED says he sells ten of them a day and how much he loves Maytag because they're making so much money on the motor/control board kits.
He didn't even need to know which model it was. When I said wax motor he went right to it and even gave me a discount because they've been making so much money on these parts that he wanted to "give a little something back".

I called a friend who knows components and he replaced r11 with a 1 watt behemoth and the 600v triac. We replaced the wax motor and turned it on and the first thing I noticed was that the door lock light came back on which was a good sign. It seems to be back up and running.

Thanks so much for your help. It was going to cost about $400 to have it done by a Maytag guy, the control board/wax motor was going to cost $180 if had just swapped everything out myself. As it was, the total for the wax motor and components was less than $30.

All I can say is awesome. Thanks so much.

Michael

From: matt [mailto:boscosvids@hotmail.com]
Sent: February 13, 2006 10:30 PM
To: leodave@shaw.ca
Subject: repair job on mah3000aww
Quick question r52 on machine control board could you tell me the value on yours mine is smoked along with Q3 but i can read that one
Thank you in advance
Matt up here in Olympia WA

{LeoDave: Feb 2006 - Can anyone help Matt? Please send him direct as I do not own a maytag anylonger I can't take a look., Thanks}

I'd just like to say thanks for the information on how to fix my Maytag piece of crap washing machine (in my opinion). Works again after the R11 & Q9 replacement. I also added a 500ma fuse in the J18 position.

Boing - Posted: 26th Mar 2006

From: Larry
Sent: April 19, 2006 1:01 PM
Subject: schematics

Anyone find where schematics on these boards can be found ? More than likely they are confidential not for release.

Larry

{LeoDave: Apr 2006 - Can anyone help? I have a manual PDF on the main page but nothing else. Please do send me anything and I'll post it as soon as I can with a link on the main page, Thanks}

From: Josef D.
Sent: April 20, 2006 7:10 AM
Subject: MAH3000AWW

I just want to thank you for your very informative forum for saving me a bundle in making my own repairs to our 6 years old MAH3000AWW.
Although the symptom of our washer was completely different from the majority of everyones troubles, I managed to read them with interest because it gives me an idea on what to check in the future when the washer dies again. Anyway, the trouble with my washer was not spinning or going through the cycles. Everything else works including the lock door and on light. That was the first thing I checked even before reading all this information. It's the first time I opened a washer and tinker with the internal workings of it. I didn't know about the separate motor control board until reading it here.
I read bill's input from your forum and proceeded to troubleshoot the control board. I also checked the motor for continuity to the windings and making sure it's not grouding out. It turned out 2 of the MOSFET's (C-PHASE) was shorted out( I removed all six and tested them individually) and the fuse was blown. I went to a local electronic store to purchase a replacement part (NTE 2900)since they don't have the original IRF 640 (I think). Installed an in-line fuse holder and fuse. The washer started to work for about two minutes then it blew a fuse again and the same MOSFET's shorted out. So, again i dismantled everything and checked the board. Replace the MOSFET's and fuse, then rechecked all the circuits and components.
Looked good to me so I figure there has to be a short somewhere else. Decided to check again for ground to motor field windings again, this time while wiggling the cables. As Bill mentioned, the clamp that clamps the cable are made of metal and as the motor run and vibrates the "tub" , the cable vibrates with it and it somehow caused the short. By the way, one of these clamps is bolted to the motor chasis. The short was sporatic but it's there so I removed the cable and checked. Must have beed a small cut because I did not find any broken insulation. During installation, I rerouted the cable and replace the clamps with the rubber grummets. After 3 loads since the repair, so far it's working fine.
I actually research the net in case I have to change the board or even worst another front load washer as my wife loves our Neptune. The info in this forum saved me atleast $150, for the circuit board but that would have been a waste because of the clamp shorting out and will replicate the same problem. Worst case scenario was a new washer which is about $1000 or maybe call the service guy. Price for 4 MOSFETs, fuse and in-line fuse holder = $15. What a deal!!!

Joe

Hi and thank you!

When the washer started showing problems, we were only two months into our new house.  The clothes came out soaked, so I deduced there was a problem with the drain pipe, drain pump, or the controller for the drain pump.  I cleaned the drain pipe and I ordered (from RepairClinic.com) and replaced the drain pump.  Obviously the problem wasn't solved.  I emailed the RepairClinic.com guru and asked if I should look for anything else before replacing the board and he clued me in to looking at R11.  That's when I found this site.

After spending an hour reading and pulling the circuit board out my washer, I ordered 3.9 kOhm resistors (R11) and MAC97A6 triacs (Q6) from DigiKey.com, and a new wax motor from RepairClinic.com.  I also shipped the old drain pump back to RepairClinic.com.  At first, I just replaced R11 since Q6 still looked like it was in good shape.  The new R11 cooked instantly.  Since R75 was showing some damage (the stripes were burned on the side next to R11), I thought I should replace it too.  I took my 6 year old daughter with me to Radio Shack and taught her how to order the resistors.  When asked "what can I help you with today?", she spoke up and said "Resistors!  10 kill-a-gnome and 3.9 kill-a-gnome!"  He laughed.  Back at the washer, I replaced R11, R75, Q6 and replaced JP18 with a 500 mA fuse.  The washer is 4 for 4 as I type – it all works again.

I really agree with "Mike's Info" over "Roy's Info", but both are insightful.  The triac drives the wax motor, but can only do so if the motor is well behaved.  When the motor fails, the R11 and Q6 circuit elements overheat and fail.

Before the washer can go into a spin cycle, it locks the door so wet clothes don't come flying out if something is out of balance.  The Q6 triac applies a little current to the wax motor, and it heats up an element inside ("goo" according to Mike) that expands and pushes a short rod to mechanically get the door locked using a series of gears.  Part of the lock includes a detection circuit to verify the door is truly locked.  If the door isn't locked, the spin cycle is cancelled and your clothes sit there full of water.  I've been wringing them out by hand in the back yard before tossing them in the dryer.

So, the wax motor for the door lock is the key.  Over time, it heats and cools, heats and cools.  The overall resistance, around 1.8 kOhm fresh off the shelf, drops over time.  Some of the people at the site said they measured their old one at less than 900 ohms – half.  You see the rest: the motor's resistance drops with age, the current through the triac and R11 goes up, and eventually out comes the magic smoke.  The fuse needs to be there.  If the motor ages poorly again, the fuse will blow before any components get cooked.  I'm going to order another couple wax motors soon, in case they stop production and I have another burnout in 5 years.  If the fuse blows, that means the motor is gone.  So I only have to replace a 9 cent fuse and a $17 motor without getting out the soldering iron again.

When I called Maytag about this and said I had the same problem as everyone else in the lawsuit, the "customer service representative" audibly shivered and immediately read me a prepared speech about how the deadline for repair or reimbursement had passed, how they had dutifully sent letters to everyone who had filled out their registration cards (I didn't) and how they advertised in USA Today, etc, etc, etc.  She refused to talk to me at all after that.  I wasn't going to argue with a supervisor, so I hung up and started ordering parts online.  All said and done, I'm out about $50 for doing it myself - that's a little over a tank of gas these days.

Thanks again everyone, and especially to Leo Dave for the website!

Todd

{LeoDave June 2006: Thanks Todd, it makes it all worth while loading it up when I recieve emails like yours, and I'm sure Maytag love my site too LOL }.

Maytag No Spin Problem - Alternate Solution

This solution is applicable as long as wax motor is not burned out or shorted across its terminals. It will implement door lock and lock light.

Get a 200 ohm 10 watt resistor.
Remove brown wire from P7-4 on control board. (You will leave board connection open:no wire connected)
Connect one end of resistor to P7-4 brown wire and other end to black wire on START/STOP switch.
Insulate all connections with electrical tape.

This will apply power to the wax motor only when machine is turned on. It will even activate the wax motor and light the door locked light.
When machine completes wash cycle, you will need to press the STOP button for the machine to turn off and the door will be released in about 2 minutes and door light will go out. (See OBSERVATIONS below)

OBSERVATION:
After using this solution for a while, my wife mentioned that the ON light did not go out automatically, even though the machine completed the cycle. After the cycle was complete, the only activity was that once every 2 to 4 minutes, the machine would tumble the clothes for a few seconds. No other activity occurs.
Since with this solution the door lock is tied to the ON/OFF switch, and the board computer monitors the door lock, the computer does not automatically turn the START/STOP to OFF. (The computer monitors the door lock as a safety feature.)
This is easily remedied by just manually pushing the START/STOP button to turn the machine OFF. In fact if you need to open the door in mid cycle, just use the manual STOP. The door will open after a 2 minute delay.
The door will unlock when the machine has been OFF for about 2 minutes.

Bob
 

From: Henry
Sent: July 20, 2006 7:37 PM
Subject: Maytag Neptune Repaired

Hello,
Just wanted to say that your site rocks!
We inherited a Maytag Neptune Washer (MAH3000AWW) and matching dryer with the house we recently bought. We thought we were getting a sweet deal. We shortly discovered that the washer did not work. No spin. We asked the seller and he claimed to have been washing clothes the day before he moved out. Yeah right!

So, after a little searching on the web, I came across your site.

With info in hand, I set out to repair the beast. Here's what I did: Replaced the Wax motor -- $24.55 Upgraded the R-11 resistor to 1/2 watt 3.9K ohm -- $0.20 Upgraded the Q6 Triac to 0.6A 600V (MAC97A8) -- $0.46 Added in-line fuse holder -- $2.49 and 0.315A fuse -- $0.49 Plugged both washer and dryer into Surge Protector -- (already had one) TOTAL COST -- $28.19 and about 3 hours research, getting parts, and replacing components. I just finished washing the second load and it's humming along great!

Thanks for all the info,
Henry

A lot of the focus has been on the breakdown voltage of the Q6 triac (400 volts vs 600 volts). I don’t think that’s the issue. I believe the key is the current handling capability of Q6. A triac is a solid state switch, and in this circuit it is being used to supply 120 VAC to the wax motor. And what happens is that as the resistance of the wax motor drops (due to age and intermittant unreliability of the device), the current through it rises:  I = V/R. When the current exceeds the rated capacity of the triac, it blows.

The suggested Q6 replacement device, the NTE5657, is rated at 800 mA. So the load resistance that will smoke the 5657 is R = (120 / 0.8), or 150 ohms. That means at 120 volts, if the operating resistance (R under load) of the wax motor ever drops below 150 ohms for more than a few milliseconds, the 5657 will blow.

Notice that R11 is not in the high-current path. It is there to protect the gate terminal of Q6 from being over-driven. But when Q6 blows due to too much current, it sometimes (usually) shorts back through the gate and this lets the high current bleed back through the gate and that blows R11. When this happens it often blows the driver transistor Q2 as well.

So my latest experiment is that I am substituting the NTE 5645, which is a high-power triac designed to sustain 10 amps. It can also handle a surge of 110 Amps, so it might even be OK with an arc flash-over in the wax motor if it’s over with quickly. The wax motor resistance would have to drop below 12 ohms in a sustained fashion to blow this triac. It also has a 600 V breakdown but I don’t think that is a concern in any case – the voltages in this circuit are all in the 120 V range.

The reason I am going this route is because I have already replaced Q6, R11, Q2 (also blown) and the wax motor. This fixed it for about 2 months and then it blew again. One solution that has worked for some people is the relay modification. But a high-power triac is the solid-state equivalent of the relay circuit. The advantage is you don’t have to modify the circuit or cut leads.

This should work. All we’re trying to do is figure out how to handle the intermittant high current that these unreliable wax motors seem to draw down every once in a while. Higher current handling capacity seems to me to be the key to accomplishing this goal.

Obviously the control board can’t sustain these current loads for long in any case – the wattage would start melting components. The drawback would be if these higher currents are sustained for very long, they may smoke the circuit traces on the control board. I’ll let you know if that happens. I’m not replacing my wax motor this time. I think that’s a waste of time and money. And if it blows the circuit traces that carry this current I’m just going to replace them with wire.

Right now I’m going on the theory that the wax motor resistance drops into very low values intermittantly but then returns to sustainable values. If I’m wrong, at least the result will be interesting and informative.

Steve

From: gregory
Sent: April 24, 2006 5:54 AM
Subject: Maytag R11 Q6 problem- Lessons Learned

Leodave,
I wanted to pass along a valuable lesson that I learned while fixing this problem on my machine. What it comes down to is, "Replace R11 and Q6 whether or not Q6 looks OK" .

Let me start out by admitting that I am not one of those EE types, but I do enjoy electronics and know just enough to be dangerous. I ordered my wax motor from the local Maytag Parts dealer (Hagedorn Appliances) and I ordered my circuit parts from Unicorn Electronics, which was mentioned in another post here. They are fantastic to deal with. I did go ahead and order the new Triac just in case. I didn't want to mess around with the board any more than I had to since I'm just an amateur solderer. R11 was definitely smoked, however Q6 looked fine. I could read the writing on the side and there were no signs of heat. Besides, I had no idea how to test a triac with my DMM.

Attempt #1: So I just replaced the wax motor, installed a 1/2 amp fast-blow fuse in the wax motor circuit, and replaced R11. I measured 120V at the wax motor leads, so I hooked it up and ran a cycle. Still no door lock light on spin and then my wife says, "Does something smell hot?" You guessed it. R11 smoked again. What surprised me was that the inline fuse was still fine, and the Q6 triac still looked OK.

Attempt #2: I was now afraid that there was a different problem with my machine. You know, one of those "I've never seen one do THAT before" type of things. But since I had the new Triac, and I still had another 49 resistors, I figured I'd give it another shot. So, I re-replaced R11 (which by this time had started lifting the circuit trace off the board) and replaced Q6 with the new 600V Triac. (Side note: Here's where I got stupid on the second attempt) I was concerned that I had over heated R11 while replacing it since I had some problems with the circuit trace mentioned above. Once it was soldered in, I decided to measure across it with my DMM. Hmmm, only 300 and some odd ohms... must've fried it, right? WRONG. There's more than one path here genius, and electricity always follows the path of what? Right, least resistance. It was still 3.9KOhms through the resistor, but there was another path around the resistor that was about 300 ohms. Luckily, even after desoldering and resoldering, I still had a good connection on the board. So, now armed with a new R11, a new Q6, new wax motor, and the fuse modification, we were ready for another test run. We decided to let it run straight through from the wash cycle instead of trying to jump in the middle of a cycle.
It hit the first rinse and Hooray!!! the door locked light came on. Waited through all 3 rinses and hit the spin. OK, I hear some agitation, then a pause, then that familiar 747-jumbo-jet-take-off sound. It's spinning, It's spinning!!!

You'd have thought we just won the lottery the way we were dancing around. I should explain that we have 4 kids and mountains of laundry, and my wife was NOT going to the laundromat again.

So, thank you all for this site and for saving me 300 and some dollars on repair, or who knows how much for a new machine.

If anyone has the time and the knowledge, I would like to know a couple of things:
1) Can you / How do you test a triac?
2) Does the bad triac cause the R11 resistor to blow somehow? I thought that the over current to the wax motor blew Q6 and R11 at the same time.
But now it seems that the WM circuit blew Q6 which then caused R11 to flame out. Close?

Thanks,
Greg in Cincinnati