Let's take a vote - this student thinks this is a good story. What do you guys think?

Hi,

I read some of the stories posted on your site, and quite frankly... They scare me. I applied and got a Canada student loan from the federal government last year, a few more to go until I graduate. I'm a bit scared now that stuff like this will happen to me.

I noticed that most stories if not all deal with CIBC bank, well January 2003 I went to my bank, which is TD Canada Trust and said I wanted to apply for a student line of credit because I told Canada student loans I was taking 80% course load, when in fact I was taking 60% course load, therefore they practically knocked off a thousand dollars off my loan, so I was short for the rest of the year. I was forced to take out a student line of credit. Well, we (my parents and I) made an appointment with one of the bankers at TD, we sat down and went over some of the paper work, the usual questions like do you work, annual income, mortgage, credit cards, debt, value of your cars etc... Well, I was taking new courses for the Winter term and registration and tuition fees were due in a matter of days so everything was happening too fast. I told my bank that I needed things processes asap. She told me it would take only a couple days, so I waited, I called by bank after a couple days and needed to know. Well, my financial consultant tells me there was a problem with the application and would need to speak with my parents, so I put my mom on the phone and turns out they have to go to the bank and seek an alternative way to find money for my schooling. Well, we finally go to the bank a few days later and turns out I wasn¹t approved for the line of credit because of my debt with canada student loans and the fact that I wasn¹t working (I'm a damn student!!) well, they approved my dad for a line of credit of roughly $30,000, so I had money to use for schooling, however it was not interest free, so I had to watch what I spent! Aside from that, its not exactly a bad story, but rather a good one. TD Canada Trust made the effort to find an alternative financial source so I can continue school. Happy schooling!!

Proof that we aren't crazy!

Well, maybe a little. Read this story from a Student Loan Centre Employee:

I'm a f/t student and work at one of the most hated student loan centers in Canada. I must admit that our student loans department screws up royally at least 1000 per week. When sending your Schedule 2 (really the carbon copy called 22a if you got a loan b4 august 2000) always make sure to follow up. I know it sounds funny considering the bank pays their employees good money to make sure all of their clients are happy and are likely to bank with them in the future. But you see were so quick to say "call back in 10 days" cause most of the time things don't get done correctly, so we just leave it in the students' hands. Whenever I feel our bank really messed up a clients account, I try to get a service commitment which is where the bank pays out standing interest because they know one of their employees must of be on something when they were dealing with an account. Technically, as long as we say to the student to follow up and you don't, when something goes wrong we'll remind you that we did our part of telling you to "follow up" so it's not our problem if your Sched 2 (confirmation of enrollment to remain under interest free status while still in school) was never received and you entered repayment before you've even graduated. We lose so much mail that I must wonder at times if the people in the mail room doesn't just use them as toilette paper!- The saddest thing is when a client drops off their interest relief application at branch thinking it will get to its related student loan center, only to get a call 2 months later from someone saying " since we never got your application you need to reapply. And to do so, you'll have to pay some interest or if you want, for your convenience we'll tack on the interest that you owe us back onto the loan" in reality you just end up paying interest on top of interest and never get rid of that 174 month term loan ( 14.5 yrs to pay off the loan)

So when we say to "follow up", really do follow up. As if the bank really cares if you don't cause the default option is always the best option for them "you have to pay more interest!"

So really stay on top of everything, record your conversations, and check your credit rating twice per year cause we are also known for screwing up credit rating like their is no tomorrow!

Do you ever feel that you get some information from one rep, one month later another rep tells you something completely different so you have to start all over again. Well the reason for that is cause these student loans centers are always hiring and the new kids are a little lost with all of these rules and regulations. But they actually do mean to give you the right information. When I started at that place, out of 100 accounts, I probably screwed up 35 of them (no joke).

You know what really makes me sick! With anything we mail out, we have self addressed envelopes that go to some indirect address of ours. This address will make mail coming from the same province take about 1 month (if you're lucky) before getting to us. So why doesn't the bank just print self addressed envelopes to our direct address? get this, since they've printed so many of these envelopes, they don't just want to throw them out and print some good ones cause they would lose the money that they've invested in printing those bad envelopes. So instead, they pay their employees really well to deal with the huge flow of angry customers who just can't understand why they live in the same city as the address on the envelope yet after 3 tries, a simple application has never made it to us.

One last piece of advice, always request for a payment history of your loans. So you can see for yourself how your loans are going no where and start taking the initiative to pay off your loan on your own terms (as apposed to 14.5 yrs).

Although I'm in this really challenging program at one of the countries hardest universities, I struggle to pay for my own education just so that I don't have to dread the day when my loan enters repayment status!

May God bless all those of you with any student loans out there.
Anonymous : )

Couch Dweller Responds:

Just a few comments regarding Ms Anonymous letter. I have also posted this on the Canada Student Debt website ­ I know my friends there need the laughs

"When sending your Schedule 2 always make sure to follow up."

I tried. Unfortunately, even after I followed up and your rep said, "Yes, we received the form," a week later I would receive a phone call from your office saying that they hadn't received the form.

"Whenever I feel our bank really messed up a clients account, I try to get a service commitment which is where the bank pays out standing interest because they know one of their employees must of be on something when they were dealing with an account."

Well, you were the only one, then. And you never talked to me!

"Technically, as long as we say to the student to follow up and you don't, when something goes wrong we'll remind you that we did our part of telling you to "follow up" so it's not our problem if your Sched 2 was never received and you entered repayment before you've even graduated."

See comment above. And "technically," I must add that it is your responsibility to do your job right, not mine to ensure you are doing your job right. I am not your boss. I followed the written instructions to the letter. Now it's your turn.

"Do you ever feel that you get some information from one rep, one month later another rep tells you something completely different so you have to start all over again. Well the reason for that is cause these student loans centers are always hiring and the new kids are a little lost with all of these rules and regulations."

My POINT! So why would we call to follow up?

"With anything we mail out, we have self addressed envelopes that go to some indirect address of ours. This address will make mail coming from the same province take about 1 month (if you're lucky) before getting to us. So why doesn't the bank just print self addressed envelopes to our direct address?"

A better question: why is there no "please return or postmark by" date on any of the forms?

"always request for a payment history of your loans. So you can see for yourself how your loans are going no where and start taking the initiative to pay off your loan on your own terms (as apposed to 14.5 yrs)."

From what I have read (and we have been reading the same postings, haven¹t we?) many have tried to get this information ­ and have had their requests ignored. I also suspect that what you mean by "your own terms" means paying more than the minimum. That's why we all applied for interest relief in the first place, sweetie. I notice that you don¹t even address that issue at all. Why is that? What are you hiding? Is there even anyone who processes the forms or do they all go into a shredder?

"Although I'm in this really challenging program at one of the countries hardest universities, I struggle to pay for my own education just so that I don't have to dread the day when my loan enters repayment status!"

Good for you. I'm sure you don't have children to raise at the same time, do you?

In conclusion, thanks for raising more questions than providing answers.

Couch-dweller

I called the CIBC National Student Centre Feb. 1, 2002 to change my floating rate to a fixed rate as the prime was very low. No problem they said, all you have to do is fax us a letter requesting this option. So I did.

I called the next day to make sure that it was received and they said everything was set up just fine. Feb. 25, 2002 I get a call from the CIBC NSC asking me why I hadn't paid my loans. I said that it was impossible because the payment comes out automatically. She put me on hold and while I was listening to lovely hold music, I pulled up my bank account on the Internet. There were 2 student loan payments taken out on Jan. 31. She came back on the line and I informed her of this. She couldn't understand why she had to phone me so I would have to call back in a few days.

I call back 2 days later and they still have no idea why their documents show that I didn't pay. Then they call me back a few hours later to tell me that I owe $54.79 in interest because I had changed to the fixed rate option and this takes effect from when I started to pay back my loan - which was December. So I was supposed to know this? No agent had said anything about back-interest. So they wait almost 33 days - which at this point it is noted on my credit that I didn't pay and I'm stuck with bad credit. When I asked them why no one told me, the only answer they had was: "it doesn't matter, you still have to pay $54.79."

Freeda

the next day i called canada student loans and they informed me that according to their records i had graduated a year earlier and that i was indeed in arrears for the full amount. i explained that i only graduated the previous day but they would not listen. i sent them letters from the registrar. i sent them my transcripts. i sent them a copy of my degree. i sent them a copy of my schedule 2's from the previous year. they would not accept anything. i asked where their copies of the schedules 2's were and they could not locate them. They said 'maybe they got lost in the mail', which turns out was supposedly my responsibility. i have not big enough shoulders to carry the burden of Canada post along with a student loan default.

so after three months of haggling with no budging on their side - i even asked a lawyer to look into it and she informed me that there was nothing i could do - i gave in and started paying the collection agency that now has my student loan. my credit rating is shot and i am eagerly awaiting the year 2003 when, after the expired seven years of bad credit
purgatory, i can actually start acquiring a credit rating again and am able to enter the world of adulthood.

i'm sure my story is common. good luck with your web site.

lrs

................. and our daughter doesn't even have one yet. She applied in Mar '02, only to have it sent back in May because it was last years form. (Not only can they not keep forms up to date but it takes them 2 months to figure out this basic requirement) Filled out the new forms (the ONLY difference was now using SIN #s in place of Prov Health
Card #s); sent them in May '02. To date (7/2/02); still no word. Called to check (she needs to get an apartment pronto & HOW MUCH $ DOES SHE HAVE TO WORK WITH??). Do you think they could tell me? NOPE!! Claim they received it June 20th & it takes 6 weeks.

Incompetence everywhere! If this is a portent of things to come there will be some heated conversations 'tween Canada Student Loans & ourselves. PS: WHY can't they hire people who speak & understand English on at
least a basic level?

After receiving false information from CIBC (who holds my provincial loans) on how to remain on interest relief while being a student, I thought I'd be in as much trouble with my national which is through The bank of Nova Scotia. When I explained the error for the mishap to BNS, I was instantly put on a six month term of interest relief. I speak with one agent, her name is Giselle and she's fantastic. i have never had any problems with the BNS or their student loans department. Cudos and many thanks to them.

However ...

After receiving the wrong information from the student loans department at CIBC, I was, while still in school and then for six months after, repeatedly harassed by their Student loans administrators. Now that my loan is in a collection agency and it's about to go to litigation while I'm re-enrolling to go back to school, I find that the dozen or so calls that I made at this
time last year are not reflected in my file. Not knowing what to pay is my fault because I didn't send myself a monthly statement as that must have been my responsibility as well. Who else? The CIBC.

My Brother in law had an account in his hometown with the CIBC. he closed it out when he moved. After applying for interest relief of his loans (graduated and unemployed) and receiving it, three months later he received notification that the student loan was past due and that there was an
overdraft now on the account for NSF. The account was closed down before interest relief was assessed, the account was never listed as an account to withdraw money, the automatic withdrawl papers were never signed and they
weren't supposed to be making payments.

A co-worker when in school applied for interest relief after making some payments for the year prior. He received interest relief, skipped september's payment but when the new student loan came in October, they automatically withdrew two months payments from his account. For three months he argued with them as that was his rent money for two months. While doing so, he had to get a part time job and work while in school and he nearly flunked out because he was working, studying, and arguing with the student loan department of CIBC.

Remember, if you take money out of someone's account without permission, you're a fraud at best or a thief at worst. If the banks do it, it's a "clerical error".

Love the site, hopefully we can change some minds and some procedures.

I am a 41-year-old single mother. I completed two university degrees while raising my son after my divorce and working part-time, usually two jobs at a time. I refused to go on mothers' allowance while it was still allowed. I graduated in 2000 and found a job I love as an advertising copywriter . My
Ontario Student Loan is $15,000 after loan forgiveness and my Federal loan is $45,000. As I made (and still make) under $25,000 a year, I applied for interest relief. I worked at the CIBC for 11 years; I know the importance of immaculate paperwork. The first round of Federal Interest Relief went
through without a hitch -- but the Provincial? The staff at CIBC Student Loan Centre repeatedly lost paperwork, gave me contradictory advice, delayed action in rectifying the situation -- in other words, did such a completely incompetent job, that by the time they admitted they had all the paperwork, they told me, too bad, it's too late, pay up, or you will go into
collection. As I did not have $250 a month after rent, food and bills, I gave them what I could -- postdated cheques for $25 a month. That was not good enough; I started receiving phone calls and letters from a collection agency. According to them, of course, I am a bum and a liar.

Then my federal interest relief had to be renewed. Two months after I requested -- by mail, since I do nothing by phone anymore -- I moved home to my parents and sent another letter requesting the forms. By the time they arrived, I had one week to do the paperwork and FedEx them to Burlington. Apparently, that wasn't time enough. I was "outside the window" again, and unless I paid interest, they wouldn't reprocess them. I had no money. "Then we're putting you into collection." But, I protested, this was CIBC's doing!! Too bad, they said, pay up.

They want $511 a month. That's over $750 a month total. My life is ruined.

I have been in a state of panic for the past two years. I called a credit counsellor once -- her advice? Get an unlisted phone number and lay low for 10 years. I've changed my phone number at home and at work. I e-mailed CBC Marketplace. They had "no advice for me." And, according to the other
postings I've read, lawyers can't do anything! I am not a criminal!! My son and I live with my parents now, and pay them $400 a month room and board. I can't afford geared-to-income housing! I don't own a car. I don't own a bed. I have slept on the living room couch for a year now. My dad, whose business went into receivership 10 years ago, drives a cab because he can't afford to retire. He's 71. The credit guy started pumping me for info about my parents. My god, they have been through enough!

The irony is, everything I went to school for will be forever out of my reach. I can't declare bankruptcy until I am 50 years old. My son goes to university in 2 years -- I can't afford to send him. And the job I love I will probably have to leave so I can move to a bigger city for more opportunities. Of course, that costs money too...then I have to get an apartment. And landlords now do credit checks. I can't win. And CIBC can do
no wrong.

I think it's about time we all ganged up and did something about this. Good, decent, hard-working people are getting screwed out of a chance of a decent life. Even ex-bank employees!

I am angry with the Canadian government. Years of fiscal mismanagement and look what we have. The same decision makers making decisions which benefit the banks and negatively effect the most vulnerable members of society, the young. The youth of Canada are paying for the mistakes of those who went before, and we will be paying for these mistakes for the rest of our lives. Only recently, the federal government gave $100 million to the banks because the banks weren't making enough money off the backs of students. $100 million dollars that universities are crying out for in funding, being given to banks that already earn millions, if not billions, in profit. I didn't go to university so I can contribute to the coffers of a multi-million dollar corporation. I went to university to learn, get a job, and make a life for myself.

I decided to leave Canada and work overseas. I'm ashamed of being Canadian and will never live there again. I intend on staying and working overseas to ensure that I never pay one cent of income tax to the Canadian government again. I wish I was never born Canadian, and I regret ever attending university. I feel I would have been better off on welfare. I hate Canada.

I had paid off a provincial student loan in B.C. and returned to school a few years later in a different program. When I applied for another loan the paperwork just never seemed to come. It was down to the wire, as I needed to register so I called the loan office but not surprisingly was always transferred to someone different who never knew what was going on.

Finally I received a rejection notice with an explanation that I was "in arrears" for a loan that I had completely paid. They decided that I had an over-award in respect to that loan and wanted me to pay an additional $300. They believed I had not paid it back (the bank and the student loan office apparently operated as separate and ignorant entities) and that I would have to prove it, or repay the entire amount. Luckily I found one slip of paper from the Bank of Montreal, thanking me for paying off my loan... a tattered form letter. I was never told that I had to take that scrap into the Student Loan Centre and wave it around to protect myself from being double charged. The lesson here: BE AWARE + Keep your paperwork for years!

So... after I proved my case, and received my new student loan, the bank immediately took $300 directly off the top to pay the imaginary "arrears" of a loan that was already paid in full. Irate, I tried to straighten out the situation but apparently the banks don't have to be accountable to anyone. There wasn't a thing I could do about it.

If it happened to me I'm sure that it's also occurred with others. Unfortunately, these types of stories are not unique.
You have to admit it's quite a racket they got going on and I'm sure someone has a nice new luxury home from the proceeds.

NSLSC refuse to positively work with me to resolve a relatively simple situation.

I withdrew from classes early, in Oct. 2001. This put me into a repayment position in a six-months period, unless I re-register as a full-time student.

I calculated that in order to not pay interest until I return to school in September, I would have to study full-time until February. Then, I enrolled into a three months full-time semester at Open Learning Agency. In other words, February + 6 months put me into repayment mode in September. At this
point, however, I would reregister as a full-time student.

I contacted NSLSC to find out how to keep my loan interest free. A representative said I need to submit a schedule 2 from OLA. I also confirmed that NSLSC would notify me when my loan went into repayment.

I followed these instructions.

While waiting for my student loan money to be deposited into my bank account, I received a phone call from the NSLSC repayment department. They claim I owe 4 months of interest.

My Argument:
Firstly, this is not true, since my study end date is Feb.
Secondly, I had not been notified that my loan went into repayment

The NSLSC:
Firstly, we had not received a schedule 2
Secondly, we were not aware you went into repayment until we received an early withdrawal letter from UBC on July 26th. As a result, we could not notify you earlier.

The Facts:
I had sent out a schedule 2 in November. UBC had sent out an early withdrawal letter in October=9 months to receive a
letter.

NSLSC claims:
While our policy states that we need a formal letter from your educational institution to confirm withdrawal, it is not our responcibility that we receive this letter. Logic: If we make an administrative error, you pay

I later found out that an early withdrawal letter travels from UBC to NSLSC through a chain of institutions. The letter is sent to BC student loans - to Canada Student loans - to NSLSC.

Is this a question of a letter getting lost or a question of slow
administration?

Canada Student Loans eventually received a letter sent out by ubc and forwarded this letter to NSLSC on July 26.

At this point, I refuse to pay interest. My next step is to see if Canada student loans will admit to an administrative error. Meanwhile, my current loan is being held up.

Please drop me a line with advice or any relevant information.

Thanks

I received a letter of notifications from ARC Recovery Corporation that my student loans with CIBC are in default: letters received Saturday, September 14 and 17, 2002. (Last I received their letters were in 2000 when they were ignoring my applications for Interest Relief, etc., which took my about 4
months to clarify). So, here we go again!!!

I have clearly tried to contact CIBC since the beginning of the year (by e-mail and snail mail - I've sent the snail mail via registered post, so I know you all are getting my mail, but am not sure who's reading it), requesting the statement of both of my accounts. CIBC has ignored my requests REPEATEDLY. I feel that their sense of customer service is Nonexistent, and I feel deeply offended that CIBC have forwarded my account
to ARC Recovery Corporation for handling. This process of repayment has been handled in a most unpleasant manner by CIBC, and I will continue my strong advocation against CIBC's Student Loans, in hopes that future students will be spared the unfortunate headache of dealing with a irresponsible
organization such as CIBC.

As mentioned in previous requests to them, I NEED those statements in order to budget my payments. I’ve paid well over $14 000 in repayment, and I feel that’s a fairly large sum of money that’s not properly handled by CIBC.

I’ve included proofs of some my many attempts to request this information (faxed to them today and Sept. 18, 2002 to fax numbers 416-980-3754 and 416-594-8419), and have withheld payment until I receive proper documentation of my accounts’ repayments from CIBC's side. Until I receive such a statement in the mail, I will continue to justly withhold my payments.

I feel that any interest (back interest or whatever kind of interest that might have accumulated since) that has accumulated since my last payment is unjustly accrued, as I would have paid off my student loan as soon as I’ve received my statement of accounts which I’ve not until to date. I believe that the mismanagement of my student loans from CIBC is the bank's fault, and they must not penalize me for their bad service and mismanagement by having me pay unnecessary interest. I wish the serious consideration of my
efforts and that my student loans are properly adjusted to reflect now unnecessary interest, due to the great delay of CIBC to respond to my repeated requests. And finally, I wish that my case is handled by CIBC only, and not by a collection agency, as I’ve made ample effort to settle my accounts, with my sincerest of intentions, but meanwhile with the most unkind disregard from CIBC.

Also, I NEED a caseworker to be assigned, as in the past, for my repayments, via E-MAIL, as that was the most effective means of handling my queries for someone like myself that's stationed overseas, if someone actually BOTHERS to do so from CIBC.

I graduated in 1999. I am Canadian, but am in economic self-imposed exile - mostly due to the horrible headache of having to pay off my student loan. Luckily I live in another country (though I love and miss Canada every single day!) where the taxes are so much lower, that I would never have been
able to make such quick leaps and bounds in paying off student loans so far. Also, I now live in a country where companies give recent graduates a greater chance for experience (versus Canada's catch-22: you must have an education to get a job; but you also need experience; so what happens if you've just graduated with the best education, but nobody gives you the chance to get the experience - now THAT'S ANOTHER story!).

We worked throughout university. I had a part time job working year round for the municipal government. My husband worked in the summers either for the Ministry of Natural Resources or for the city. We each incurred approximately $40 000 in student debt over the course of six years.

Last year, I was hired in my local school board, to teach at an elementary school. I make $42 000 gross, I bring home $28 000. My student loans are $600 per month to repay. My own educational debts are over 25% of my income. I do not qualify for interest relief or interest only because I take home too much in gross income a month. Although it was not an avenue we favoured, we were informed that we cannot declare bankruptcy for 9 more years.

The fact that I am paying for my husband to finish his last year of school is not taken into consideration either. We now have two residences, two phone bills, and two food bills, as well as transportation for him. We have no assets. All of our furniture is second hand; we have no car, our computer is five years old, and we are renting our residences. Neither of us smoke, drink, or do drugs, and we do not have cable, so obviously extras are not included. We also put off starting a family until we could afford children.

When I call the student loan center (mine is Royal Bank and my husband’s is CIBC) for some ways of making this situation easier, we are asked two things every time: what is your gross monthly income, and do you have children? I can’t believe that making the choice to have children after we can afford a family is a bad decision. Once it is established that we have no children and I make $42 000 gross, I am denied with the words, "We have to go by what our grid tells us."

In the months between September and April, when my husband is in another city, we are short by nearly $5000 in paying for our bills (these are not extras). There is no relief. We can do nothing except be hounded by the student loan center requesting their money. The loan center has also informed me that if I am late making payments, they can take the money out of my account. I have explained that when my husband is out of school and working we will be putting his entire income toward paying off the loans in a hurry, but it does not matter. We are numbers in the system and we have no one to turn to for assistance for the next seven months.

I also wonder regularly about my decision to go to university and if it would make my life more simple by going on welfare.

This information is for that poor woman who is living on her parents' couch, and has to wait until age 50 to declare bankruptcy on her student loans. Please strip my name and email address. Feel free to post this on your site, if you like.

Top Ten List (cuz someone actually cares)

1. There is a case going before the courts in Ontario that will argue that preventing students from declaring bankruptcy on their loans is discriminatory. If the case is successful, students in Ontario will be able to file for bankruptcy on their loans without waiting 10 years. Likely the federal government will appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court, which means it could free students across the country to file for bankruptcy.
Check out the Canadian Federation of Students website for more information.

2. Before the 10 year bankruptcy time limit, there are two other time limits you should know about. First, every province has a statute of limitations which will apply to loans. A limitation statute says that if a creditor does not sue on a loan within so many years, the debt will become unenforceable.
Depending on where you live that period could be as much as 10 years, though 6 or 7 years is the standard.

3. Bad credit cannot stay on your record forever. Six or seven years from the last transaction is usual practice. This is law in every jurisdiction.

4. If you don't get sued for 6 or 7 years, then you might be able to rely on 2 or 3, above. (Some banks and debt collectors are so poorly organized, there is a good chance of this for many.) But, you should note that the time limit in 2 starts over every time you make a partial payment--sending in $20 for example will cause the limitation period to run from the date of the $20 payment. It will also start over if you send a letter to the bank/debt collector with a signature even remotely referring to your debts. Be careful.

5. The only way they can grab money or property from you, without going to court, is to get a tax lien. This means asking the federal tax people to hold back GST refunds and tax refunds. Since you sound poor, this will be a pittance. Question: If such a tax lien is put on your federal taxes, and
some money is retrieved, does the limitation time clock start over? No one knows. Some people in your situation have avoided filing taxes or requesting a GST refund. In any case, start a home business, use deductions, RRSP,whatever, to ensure the government never owes you money, so the tax
lien will never be useful. (For the lawyers out there, this lien is
extra-judicial and discriminatory and should be attacked under the Charter of Rights and the Bill of Rights, which actually protects property rights (check it out).)

6. Otherwise, to get money from you they need to go to court. Small claims, usually, but a regular trial court if the sum is large enough. (Each jurisdiction is different.)Once they PROVE that you owe money--this means finding documents that may be mislaid--they will obtain a judgement. This
will be registered with a sheriff, and with a fee paid to him, your wages might be garnished or some property seized. This is an expensive process. Many debt collection agencies rely on small claims and legal agents (not lawyers) to do the paper work. This means you should get a lawyer and fight back--see legal aid, legal clinics, law schools, beg a big corporate firm to
do some pro bono, whatever. Don't be afraid to take these bozos on.

7. They can't seize everything from you: you'll keep your clothes, your basic personal belongings, and maybe goods you need to run a business or make money. (It sounds as if you don't have much more than this anyway--you've got nothin to lose!)Most places limit garnishee to a certain percentage of your income (maybe 30%, but I can't remember). The irony is that this percentage is what most graduate students would willingly pay on their student loans if the banks would listen to their pleas of poverty. Ask around for what it is in your area.

8. Stop being scared. This process won't kill you, I promise. Plenty of people owe money. These obligations can go away in 6 or 7 years, and your credit rating will be wiped clean someday. And if the law suit mentioned in #1 is successful, you might declare bankruptcy sooner that you think.

9. Get on with your life, and look for work with your new education. Most jurisdictions have strict rules about when and where debt collectors can call you--they shouldn't call you at work.

10. Live long and prosper.

Hi,

Thank you for helping me make up my mind about what to do on November 1, 2002 when my students loans all become repayable. Hide. I would gladly pay back every penny if I would be left with enought to live on, but I seriously doubt, now, that this will happen. I am a 41 year old single parent who just graduated with a B.Sc. and B.Ed. I went back to school because I was tired of making $12/hr and trying to pay $500/mo in daycare. After 10 years in university I am not about to live like this for another 10 years. My student loans total approx. $50,000. I am currently in bankruptcy. The Banks are not supposed to send my student loans to collection while I am in bankruptcy. It is against the law. But this is just what the Bank of Nova Scotia did. The collection agency was already phoning me at home, treating me in a very belligerant and rude manner. I called my Bankruptcy Trustee and she, once again, sent them the bankruptcy documentation. The calls have since stopped. The Bank of Nova Scotia also claimed my Federal Student Loan and have been paid by the Fed Government. I called the Fed Gov collection agency called the National Collections Services Group and they told me they had to update my address and phone no. before they could give me any information about my account. As soon as I gave her my current information she informed me that she could not discuss my account because I was in bankruptcy and had not yet received my bankruptcy discharge. As soon as I receive my discharge, National Collections, the Prov Gov't, the National Student Loan Service Centre and BNS will all be after me for many thousands of dollars each. My Trustee says this is not a Bankruptcy matter because student loans are not covered by the Bankruptcy Act so she can't help me and I can't afford a lawyer.

I cannot apply for Interest Relief because I declared bankruptcy. As the bank told me about 6 times, in broken accented English "You give up all your rights because you declared bankruptcy". My question is, if I still owe the money even after I have applied for bankruptcy, why do I not have a right to apply for interest relief? Their answer to me was, "Because you declared bankruptcy". OK I get it. From now on I will only communicate in writing.

i came across this site for the same reason as anyone the nightmares of student loans. my very last student loan was in 96/97 and have since have been harrassed by royal bank and NCO finacial and the numerous other collection agencies NCO being the latest one and the most nasty. the course i took was esthetics and because of were i live there is no living to be made in that field and i struggled for yrs on to go back to
school or not even though i cant get a loan again nor wld i want a loan but anyway i currently decided no im going to move to a bigger city were i know the work is . but in the mean time i have struggled to bring in not even enough money to support myself as well as contribute to my sons up bringing
financialy so needless to say the 300-450 $ a month payment that student loan demanded and still do .. there was and still is no way that i can afford anything close to that .so my loan bieng in big time defaulted on ive been harrassed and threatened by creditors and feeling like a sitting duck
waiting for them to strike because theres nothing i can do about it ...its a horrible feeling.

i have a few yrs to wait before i can declare bankruptcy yet.
i read the previous story about the top ten list and found it encouraging. the part were if they havent sued for 6-7 yrs and i was about at that time period ..but about 2 mnths ago NCO was again harrassing me and some how found were i worked and started calling me there ..the called me 3 times in
one day leaving messages with my managers and i worked at wal mart so its very busy ...too busy to be taking calls . any way, so he threatens me saying if i dont give him money he's going to my supervisour to garnish me probably so that scaring the hell !!! out of me i say to him im bringing in 500-600$ a
mnth after room and board and bills and something left over for my son that doesn't leave me much so i said i'll give you 15$ a mnth take it or leave it as even that is hard to come up with.

so he asked for my bank details and much to my hesitation as he was soooo nasty and threatening i gave him bank details over the phone (nothing signed) and said for the time bieng you can take 6 15 $ mnhtly payments so he took out 1 and right after that i lost my job at wally world and had to put stop payment on the 15 $ as when you bring in next to nothing 15 $ yes is hard to come up with.

so it looks like because i made 1 payment that the

A limitation statute says that if a creditor does not sue on a loan within so many years, the debt will become unenforceable. Depending on where you live that period could be as much as 10 years, though 6 or 7 years is the standard.

can't apply to me now and i half to wait like a sitting duck yet again. that is soo horribly frustraing. as im making my move to a big city to get work and get myself together and it will be sometime before i can afford to start paying them anything and even when i cant afford some thing ..i'm so for in default (amounts that i cannot catch up on at all) my credit even if
i make payments will be trashed for life.

so god willing i hope something good can happen and end this hell .

oh and to the man or woman that posted the 10 top 10 list
id love to have chat with them and ask a cple queastions if you cld copy and paste my email address and send it to them and ask if they wld email me that wld be great. any insight or help anyone cld offer wld be so great and goodluck to the
rest of you dealing with these people.

€ I'd like to thank the author of the Top 10 list. However, I'd like to stress that I am not trying to avoid the loan, I just wanted incompetence eliminated and the interest relief I believe I was entitled to. I want to pay what I am owed, but only when I can afford to. I feel better knowing that I am paying something -- even if it is $25 a month. My conscience is clear.

€ I have entered into an agreement with a collection agency out of Edmonton to pay a small monthly amount in exchange for arrears being forgiven and the loan being returned to the CIBC National Student Centre -- I don't know whether that is a good thing or a bad thing! But apparently, I am eligible to apply for interest relief again if I keep these $180 a month payments up. As I'd rather deal with only one collection agency at a time, I'm horking up the dough and living on the couch a tad longer than I expected... Oh, and prior to this, I did get my letter from the Feds threatening to take away my GST and tax refunds. I ensured that I have as little tax as legally possible deducted off my cheques by filling out a new TD1 form and claiming 'Equivalent to Spouse.'

€ Provincially, I still pay my $25 a month to a collection agency based in TO, and periodically receive a cute little postcard mailed from various locales throughout the GTA exclaiming in little-girl handwriting, "Please call this number ASAP to discuss an urgent matter!!!" Listed below is a 1-800 number and an extension. Sometimes a woman's name. I figure that if it was that urgent, they wouldn't wait for me to call to tell me about it, you'd think. I have to laugh -- these agencies forget that are dealing with educated people!!

€ If I have any advice, it is the following:
1) Get an unlisted phone number
2) If you suddenly get phone calls from anyone claiming to be from a collection agency, but you were not informed in writing that your loan was in collection. Do not talk to these people. Tell them that by law, they have to notify you in writing first. Then hang up immediately. They will try and con you.
3) They cannot harass you at work. Tell them that you are not allowed to take personal calls. And tell them you are more than willing to communicate in writing. I have our receptionist screen my calls -- collection agencies will not reveal who they are or they will be deliberately vague.
4) The Feds can take away your tax and GST refunds, but not your Child Tax Credit. No worries.

To Top 10 Guy, I like to say that, although I sometimes feel on the outside of mainstream society, I am getting on with my life the best I can. I've lost most of my old friends in the process -- I think I represent their worst fears; they would like to pretend that I don't exist. They would also prefer to believe that all it takes is hard work to be successful. The idea that luck or chance plays a part scares the crap out of most people. But I am doing okay. Trying to talk my son into taking up the guitar since he'll be busking to pay for his education when he goes to university in two years...

I have a suggestion for the creator of this wonderful website -- a mailing list or somewhere where we all can vent, discuss, organize and advise each other. And I would like to be on a mailing list for updates regarding the Charter Challenge.

Good luck to all!

I did all the paper work though William D Ford to try and get this all straightened out and they cashed everyone of my payments but never applied to my loan. They want me to go back and pay to have more copies of all these checks again to prove payment so they put my loans into default again and doubled them. I made 150 payments and only $10 went towards the interest nothing toward principle and I guess the rest in their pockets. Now they are threatening garnish and all that. They are nothing but thieves and will not provide me with any documentation that I have asked for for at least the last 5 years. Do you think they can prove to me that I have loans? NO and how are you to fight the government? I just quit paying this year, what is the point when the just pocket the money and don't give you one damn break. I would love to sue them for all of this! I have 4 kids and I can not afford all this.

Not only that I want to know how they get away with basing your loans on your parents income. You can not go buy a car, house, etc on someone elses income. My loans were based on my parents income and they do not pay for my loans. This should be illegal, my loans should have been based on my income.

Thanks

I have had nothing but problems with CIBC student loan centre right from the start. It all started when I applied for the loan, orignially they lost my application, then they told me I didn't qualify, so I had to go through a drawn out appeal process, I didn't get any loan money until March which was useless at that point when the term was almost over.

In my last year of University, they were taking payments out of my account, I immediately called CIBC and asked them why this was happening when I was still a full time student, they said it was a mistake. When I requested the money back, they said no it's already been done. It was right before Christmas and it really made things difficult. Then when it did come time for repayment, they kept saying they never received payments, even though I had receipts for them.

I moved out of the province and needed to go on interest relief until I established myself and they supposedly kept sending me the application, but it never would arrive and they told me the government wasn't responsible for the mail. They said that they sent it, but I never received them, this happened again 4 years later when I had major surjury and was unable to work, so I applied for interest relief again, and I never got the forms a number of times.

Going back though, a payment was misplaced-big surprise and I had to pay extra to catch up. I called CIBC to let them know I made the payments, and they said everything was ok. Then I started getting nasty letters saying my loan was sent to the government and I had to pay it all off. The person on the phone didn't notify me that the payments were only for the federal loan and that I still had to pay more to fix up my provincial loan. I tried to explain, but to no avail and I had to take out at TD loan to pay off my entire provincial loan.

Needless to say my credit rating is completely shot. As a sidebar I never, ever had a problem with my TD loan. I thought everything was going smoothly until a couple of months ago, I got a call asking why I hadn't made a payment in two months. I explained that I had direct debit and it should have gone through. They told me they cancelled my direct debit (without informing me) because they got a letter returned to them saying I had moved. I told them I hadn't moved in two years and it shouldn't matter anyway because my banking info. was the same.

I have tried to speak to managers, but they are convienently never there, or do not return phone calls. I hope CIBC some day will be accountable for these mistakes, which I cannot prove, they have destroyed my credit rating among many others, who are educated people and should be the ones who are buying houses and cars, but can't. It's like being punished for being educated and trying to get ahead.

my wife and i were married in '85, i graduated in Oct. that year. I landed with an electronic component company in Aug86, making thirty seven thousand per year inside sales rep. i gained momentum in the industry and then i was laid off two years later. i got another job two later at the worlds biggest electronic components company and signed a fifty thousand dollar package. i gained so much education and skill that
i was given more accounts (unwillingly) to sell more. i saw disaster coming : Mulroney introduced the GST in 90-91, Northern Telecom (my third biggest account) talking about moving to the USA (now operate out of Raleigh, N. Carolina, i believe) , we were in a recession ! My wife and i had purchased a house months prior. we were panicking This
is Dec1991. We have (then) a four year old child and we are broke. i lost all my accounts to a massive exodus to the USA. All my accounts were laying off, closing down, slowing down, claiming bankruptcy. All in a matter of one year. Everything around me was failing : i couldn't keep the house afloat, so i let it go down . i took my wife and child and moved into an apartment. (were still living in ana apartment, because i
am going broke).

In April 1993, we lost our house, i was obviously not bringing in
enough. My wife was laid off from a courier company in 1993. I was laid off in 1994. I started my own company and i am still here.

HRDC -- present

These people are relentless in getting their money. they will stop at nothing and forgive nothing. they had a collection agency after me for over eight years. Don't get me wrong, i was paying monthly. It's just that Human Resource Development Canada wants their money yesterday. They
(HRDC) have been extremely difficult to deal with (negotiate) because they "....very strict in acceptance of settlement offers" they go on to say "...... a settlement is accepted only when there are extenuating circumstances requiring the client to make such an offer." now i ask you, if that isn't the most bold faced lie.

they took close to seven thousand dollars from my income tax return in 1994, they took another two thousand a few years later, they took sixteen hundred this past tax return. i have paid them for over twelve years (about 110 out of the 144 months) an average of two hundred and twenty five dollars per month. i mean what more do they want ? i am living in the poor house, supporting a wife and two children. i spoke with my lawyer and he told what any lawyer will say " pay the bill and go after them later" or " sorry i won't take on the government, cause i don't know how to". .

i have pretty good morals and standards : i am a God fearing man. these people have been paid in full. i have made several attempts through a lawyer, to pay the fourteen thousand in July 2002. I was getting family loan, then. Now i can only get half of it to pay. They (HRDC) refused any settlement, other than a full amount.. They want a full amount now at their convenience . They (HRDC) never responded five months ago when i had an opportunity to get rid of this headache. Now this head ache is back They (headache, a.k.a. HRDC) claim i have no basis not to pay it. I thought, the government forgives others of debt (like Russia, Africa, Mexico,
Indonesia). They (HRDC) can forgive foreigners of hundreds of millions of dollars, some in the billions....but they won't forgive their own over-taxed, under worked Canadian citizen. There is something wrong here.
I NEVER CLAIMED BANKRUPTCY and i have never run away from my debts. EVERYONE WAS PAID. but low and behold, Revenue Canada (HRDC) isn't satisfied with sticking me (all of us) with their lack of governing without corruption, staying in power while living up to broken promises over and over again, and bludgeoning us to death with taxes (municipal to federal).

HRDC are hypocrites and they are after a mere bag of shells,
comparatively speaking I have made enough money in five years to pay the bills, rent, and raise a family. They haven't seen a red cent from me for two years, because they (HRDC) keeps raising the stakes overtime. They will not accept
anything but the full amount. but they will forgive other nations. This is the same government who wants to legalize pot : i think they are the ones smoking it so much, they are losing a grasp on reality.

My wife was laid off in 1993 because they moved to another province. I was laid off in 1994 . i am still self employed and unable to sustain my office space.

I plan to take my case to the World Courts. Is there a lawyer out there with brass (knuckles) ?

signed

the story , "student loan accepted"

Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the arrangements I made with the collection agency in Edmonton only pertained to the $15,000 in Canada Student Loans I had negotiated after 1993. After I agreed to pay $180 (on a balance that was never confirmed by the collection agency), I received a lovely letter from CIBC National Student Centre telling me that the other $30,000 negotiated prior to 1993 was given to the Crown to collect as they see fit. I can't blame the collection agency in Edmonton -- how could they possibly know I had been a university student since Trudeau was still prime minister? As usual, the CIBC waited three months to respond to a letter I had written to clarify the status of my loans. Only then did I discover how complicated the whole system had become.

I think I had a meltdown at that point. I gave up. I couldn't argue anymore. Couldn't write one more letter. I called my local credit counselling agency again, knowing they had hired a new credit counsellor. I was hoping to receive better advice than, "Change your phone number and lie low for 10 years."

That woman, equally as informed, told me that I could declare bankruptcy on my old loans that were negotiated prior to the law being changed in 1996 or 7. So I called a bankruptcy trustee, BDO Dunwoody, who told me she was wrong. Sigh.

But. I could do a consumer proposal. I give the trustee a lump sum; they distribute it to my creditors for three years. Then I negotiate for another three years, and so on until my 10 years of hell are up and I can celebrate my 50th b-day by declaring bankruptcy. Unfortunately, my R1 credit card had to be part of the agreement, but that was my only other debt.

The catch? The evil ones have to agree to the plan, but, as the BDO woman said, "They know that they either get what we offer or they get nothing, so they'll probably agree to the plan."

My appointment to set the plan in motion is tomorrow. I lose no assets in this arrangement, theoretically (theoretically, because I have no assets to lose) and I can actually save a dime or two so that I can, according to BDO woman, "buy yourself a bed!"

Wish me luck. I'm feeling a little freer lately, knowing that I don't have to hide anymore...

And good luck to all of you...

Went to my appointment at BDO today and signed my consumer proposal papers. And got some scoop y'all might be interested in....

Apparently, the powers that be are considering dropping the 10-year bankruptcy rule down to five. And, in extreme cases of hardship, down to one. Apparently.

I just signed a 3-year proposal. If accepted, I make small payments that won't choke me until 2005. If this change goes through, it will be 5 years since graduation and I would be able to declare bankruptcy.

Also check out the Canadian Federation of Students website on the Charter Challenge: http://www.cfs- fcee.ca/new_campaigns/bankruptcy.shtml#case

I'll keep y'all updated!!
Couch Dweller

In the good ole U.S.A. the life of those with student loans is livinghell too!!!!!!

Hey everyone would you like to hear a cruel joke. Let's see....I went to school so I could get a job in public service. B.A. in psychology and masters degree in health services. So guess what I had the great misfortune of being told by a financial aid advisor that "There is little difference between the Stafford loan and the Perkins loan." and that there were "plenty" of loan forgiveness programs for people entering the field of public service.

Hey but guess what......I got a job working with Head Start working with poor children. I find out the other day that my Stafford loans cannot be forgiven for each year I work. (But if I had Perkins loans they would have)....all the talk that President Bush does about education and public service.....big joke......I'm 70,000 in debt. The interest builds............the entire student loan system is screwed up........they don't want to help any of us through loan forgiveness instead they want to turn all of us into the new EDUCATED P! OOR..........so we can serve like good little drones.....while they grow fat.....

cruel joke.....WE ARE THE NEW EDUCATED POOR.....WE ARE ALL IN DEBTORS PRISON.........TALK ABOUT CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT..........

Like all other students with students loans from CIBC I have had constant problems with CIBC. They all keep a record of us on file, so I think we should start keeping a record of them - maybe on your website. I'm not talking about the customer representatives who always make the mistakes, but the supervisors or managers who we tried to talk to, to get things
straightened out. They are the ones who have the power to rectify the mistakes and they never do.

I won't go into my horror story right now (I'm trying to put it out of my mind), but the cruel loans supervisor I talked to was Marsha. I think you should have a link with a list of supervisors and maybe the number of and type of problems students/ex-students have had with that supervisor.

It actually might help people get justice when they are dealing with the supervisors. If we kept track of their injustices maybe they would be less inclined to make those injust decisions.

Here would be a good start to the list:

Supervisor/Manager
Marsha (CIBC)

Number of hits: 1

By the way - very nice site.

Letter to the Bank of Montreal Dec 4, 2002

In November of 2002, my husband and I applied for a homeowner’s line of credit with our local Bank of Montreal. We were informed shortly thereafter that the loan could not be approved. They could not tell me what exactly they had found, but it looked liked my husband Kevin, had some outstanding student loans. We were sure this was a mistake as we had paid both the Ontario and Canada Student Loans in full, a fact that was confirmed by a phone call to your office on December 3rd, 2002.

We paid to receive my husbands credit report on line on November 20th, 2002 and were shocked to see two entries from a company called Total Credit Recovery (photocopies attached). I called their office on November 21st and while they could not seem to find one entry, they told me that the other entry was indeed an unpaid student loan.

I have since found out through numerous calls to the OSAP A/R Department and the Ministry of Education and Training that this was a loan forgiveness reversal from 1993/94 on an Ontario Student Loan. I have attached a copy of the information received from OSAP. The entry, which Total Credit Recovery could not seem to find reference to, was a double entry on their part and has since been removed. They refuse to remove the other entry and have started with their phone calls and demands for payment, telling my husband that they will garnishee his wages.

We negotiated the loans with the Bank of Montreal in November of 1994 and the loan forgiveness amount was forwarded to you in December 1994. I do not know when the reversal transaction occurred. My question is this. Why were we not informed of the outstanding amount and why was it not added to the balance of the student loan? In our case, we had been making the payments all along and your office had our current address, as our place of residence did not change for 5 years after the loan was negotiated. We never tried to “hide” from this debt. We never knew it existed until November of this year.

Our credit rating has been severely affected by this mistake and the credit company refuses to remove the debt from our credit rating. In researching the Student Loan Act, I have discovered that if a lender cannot collect on a student loan, they must provide the government with documentation to prove that they have tried to contact the borrower. The lender is reimbursed and the amount outstanding then falls to the government to collect. I would like to request that the said documentation by forwarded to us as well as a detailed printout of the transactions on both the Canada Student Loan and the Ontario Student Loan so that we can determine if the outstanding amount is indeed outstanding.

Letter to:

Accounts Receivable Student Support Branch

Please find attached a letter and documents sent to the Bank of Montreal in regards to the above referenced item. I would like to request all documentation concerning the attempts made by your office to contact us in regards to the loan forgiveness reversal after the bank was reimbursed for the debt. I have requested similar documents from the bank to determine when the debt actually was returned to the government.

Below is a statement copied from the OSAP web site. The way I read it, if OSAP has the right to collect information from personal tax information, and we have filed tax returns every year, then how is it that we were so hard to find?

Authority for Collection and Use of Personal Information

The ministry uses relevant personal and tax information, including your Social Insurance Number, to administer the Ontario Student Assistance Program (OSAP), including Aiming for the Top Tuition Scholarships, and to administer Canada Millennium Bursaries. This includes determining eligibility; verifying the application, any loans approved, grants, bursaries, or scholarships issued and loans forgiven; maintaining and auditing your file; and collecting loans, overpayments, and repayments. The ministry collects and uses this information under the authority of the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. M.19, and Regulations 773 and 774; the Financial Administration Act, R.S.O. 1990, c.F. 12, as amended; the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act, S.C. 1994, c. 28; and the Canada Student Financial Assistance Regulations, SOR 95-329, as amended.

The amount in question is peanuts to those of you who have posted before me, and I just can't believe that there is nowhere to turn for help. I never knew there were so many problems with OSAP until this happened to us. It is almost impossible to get records about our loan amounts (we get the Canada Post excuse too!). We never missed one payment, and now our credit is ruined. I refuse to pay any thing to anyone until they provide me with a detailed report of transactions on the loans as well as their attempts to "track me down".

I have only just begun my battle. This is truly a nightmare!

Chris

I had to leave school in 1999, as money was non existant and I couldn't afford to continue, despite my immense student loan debt. When I left school I insured that CIBC (fed loans) and Royal (provincial) had my current address on file. Well 9 months after leaving school I have yet to receive any documentation/repayment agreements, when I finally receive a call from CIBC. I return there call immediately only to find out that my loans are in default. I ask if I can apply for interest
releif, as I'm living way below poverty level. The CIBC agent says yes, and she will forward a statement and interest releif forms. A few days later a piece of paper appears with simply my outstanding student loan balance, but no forms. I call back immediately and am told that I can't apply for interest relief until I pay outstanding interest on the loan ($1200). However I am also told that even if I pay that interest immediately it is futile as CIBC has already the loan to collections and that the bank would most likely just keep the money and not recall my
loan, thus my loan would not be credited and the bank would just pocket the $1200. The agent suggested that it would be throwing my money away and not to bother, since the bank didn't want to deal with students as the loans are guaranteed by the gov't.

Two years pass before I hear from the evil collection agencies! The one holding my provincial loans cons me into making a lump payments using my credit card, so that they will accept small monthly payments. NOTE to everyone out there....DON'T DO THIS! I go to see a credit concillor who scolds me for this as the agencies are "supposed" to accept payments based on what you can afford. Other than that his only advice is try to
negoiate or else hide. Now the onslaught begins with harrasment from an agency holding my fed loan, and another representing HRDC. I'm living way, way below the poverty level and try to reach agreements with the various collection agencies. NCO (fed loan) is the absolute worst, finally with the "manager" calling me a loser, liarer, and beratting me endlessly. I tell him that until he can be civil with me I refuse to talk to him further. As a result of this my "agent" won't negoiate with me, but tells me she accept small monthly payments but only for three months, then she wants it all.

Here is my situation, my total loans (including interest so far) are at a staggering $77000. I living hand to mouth trying to keep these wolves at bay. I am self-employed, working small contracts and whatever cash jobs I can muster. My average monthly income is $1100-$1200 a month, but after my very basic monthly expenses (no cable, no car,owning nothing of
value, and shopping only randomly at Salvation Army or Goodwill....and only allowing $225/month for food) I am only able to give the collection agencies small monthly payments (in addition to paying my minimum monthly payment on my credit card for that lump sum payment on my prov loan). My payments don't even cover my interest incurred, and my credit
card payments only cover the interest and not the principal. I'm fine with my very meager lifestyle but am feeling trapped, as to work in my field of study (where most the work is freelance)I would need to upgrade my skills and there is no money for that. Should I seek more secure work, my wages would only be garnisheed. So now I'm totally stuck,
relieing off small contracts and hoping that the "agencies" don't ruin those. I owe no money except for those related to student loans. I feel totally trapped and unable to negoiate. I continue to send the collection agencies what small monthly payments I can, in the hopes that if they decide to sue then at least I can prove I tried! I don't know what else to do.....I thought of dissappearing overseas...but I know it
would follow me.

I don't have any qualms with trying to pay what I can but it is never enough and in my situation I am trapped to try to make it better. I watch the CFS website religiously, in hopes that the unjust bankruptcy law will be changed.....any updates would be greatly appreciated as CFS doesn't have their updates. My debt can never be resolved and my situation seems eternally confining. Any suggestions or updates on the
bankruptcy charter would be greatly appreciated.....WHEN WILL THE PLIGHT OF DESTITUTE STUDENTS BE HEARD?

Frantic trapped with fear

While in school (full-time) you aren't supposed to have to pay back student loans. However, depending upon what kind of loan you have, interest can still accrue. Be mindful of what college administration staff or loan documents state. Many of them tell different stories about when loans are supposed to be repaid and/or how interest accrues when you are in, or
out of school.

If you decide to consolidate your loan(s), make emphatically sure the consolidation amount is indeed the correct aggregated amount. In my case, I decided to consolidate student loans into one program thus eliminating paying numerous agencies and at different payment amounts each month. Problem was, I could never get the Consolidating Loan Agency to determine how they arrived at the total consolidated amount. While I signed the consolidation agreement, by each signature, I made a notation on the document(s) that I was only signing in order to consolidate the loans, but did not agree that the consolidation amount listed was the true, correct, aggregated amount.

Subsequently, I started making regular monthly payments under the consolidated student loans. After about 2 years, one of my monthly payments was returned in the mail. I made my next monthly payment and included the previous month's payment as well. I then received both payments back with a letter saying my loan was in 'default' and had been sent to a
collection agency, even though proper payments had been made on a timely basis, were previously accepted, the supplied payment coupon books were being used, etc, etc....

After many months of excruciating phone calls, letters, and documentation proving my points, I gave up trying to get these other parties records corrected, on their behalf, and simply quit paying. Over time the loan was transferred from one collection agency to another. As usual, these collection
agencies didn't care, at all, if they had or were working from correct records, they just wanted payment in full, which included extremely inflated fees, expenses and accrued interest, and many very rude phone calls from collectors.

So, I hired a lawyer. This law firm specializes in debt collection and helping with problematic student loans. Come to find out, the law firm has handled numerous cases, just like mine, where consolidation loan agencies and their hired collectors try to
'steam-roll' students into paying, meanwhile never bothering to get their records correct or remember that if you are represented by an attorney, they cannot contact you, they can only contact your attorney.

Looking back again, and after hearing the lawyer's numerous horror stories about the all the mishandling of student loans by the Dept. of Education, consolidation organizations and collection agencies, I should have hired a lawyer right after singing the consolidation agreement, or before the customary
2-year statute of limitations expired after the consolidation agreement was signed.

While I have maintained very accurate records, the Dept. of Education hides behind their subcontracted collection agencies and has never been able to procure records to substantiate their claims or prove how they arrived at their numbers.

So, there are basically three options:
- Have the attorney continue demanding a mediation/hearing with either the Dept. of Education or one of their hired collection agencies, and come to some agreement on a true remaining balance, and start paying again

- Keep waiting for the Dept. of Education to find 'their' records and substantiate how they came up with 'their' amount, or

- Take the "hit" and just pay the exaggerated, incorrect amount that the collection agencies say is due.

Meanwhile, the Dept. of Education can at their own discretion, garnish wages, confiscate tax returns and/or whatever else they so desire (i.e. 'steam-rolling') without ever really having to substantiate anything, or hire responsible and capable
personnel to address the issues....

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Yet another sad story about the wrongdoings by the CIBC on student loans.

I had both a VISA, as well as my student loan by CIBC. About 5 months after I graduated, I went ot CIBC to set up a chequing account so it would be very simple to have them take the money from that account. My plan was also to just deposit enough money in for the loan, as I had already heard horror stories from friends about what happened to them. I asked the lady who helped me set up the account if I needed to send anything to anyone to finalize the account, or debit, she said "No, I do that" After a few months, I went to the ATM to check my credit card balance, and the machine took it. I knew I wasn't late on my payment, I always paid more than the minimum, and they had just increased my limit for the second time since I had received it. I phoned the number on the back of my credit card statement to find out what had happened, and they said it was because I hadn't paid my student loan. I told them that the money was in the bank for it, and I had set everything up. I then asked him to send me another credit card. He refused and wanted me to pay the whole balance on the credit card at the same time. I said I would need the card back to make payments, as I made them thru the ATM, and didn't have any cheques, and as I worked from 8:30 to 5 Monday to Friday could not make it to the bank. (Small town, not open Sat or Sun) He refused. I said it had nothing to do with my student loan, but in small print on the application it states they can do this. As the money for the student loan was in the bank, I didn't worry about that anymore. About 5 months later, I started receiving harassing phone calls at work, and at home, a collection company, being verbally abusive towards myself, colleagues, and my sister who I was living with at the time.

As I had not paid back the entire student loan when they said it was delinquent, this went on my credit record, same for my VISA card.

The student loan people and CIBC have totally wrecked my credit rating, as well as some job opportunities. I am in sales, and my job involves some travelling. Without a credit card, you can not make hotel reservations, book a flight over the Internet, need to make a large cash deposit at hotels when checking in, taking clients to lunch is awkward when you're paying cash, and all the money I need while travelling I need to have upfront before I leave. I can not accept some jobs I have been offered, as they would require a credit card for travel instead of providing an advance. I am also embarassed about this, and do not want to have to reiterate this to another employer. I can honestly say that the CIBC and student loan centre have very negatively affected my life, and I do share this information with everyone who asks my opinion.

I think this may shock some of you who have horror stories about cibc student centre. I worked for cibc after i graduated. and they still consistently screwed up. One weekend they took out two payments from my account ( for which they had no authorization to access) I was in interest relief so obviously i was not expecting these payments to come out. I had just had a baby and i needed diapers so while in line at the store my card declined. I knew there had to be a mistake so i went to my office and checked my account only to find these payments were taken out.

i called the student loan centre and demanded the money be redeposited. She said no one could do that as it was a weekend. She apoligized for the error and couldn't explain why it happened. I finally told her i worked at cibc and i know she can deposit this money into my account immediately as they use same system as branch does. In the end i got my money back but not until the monday.

I would recommend everyone to always record name of who you speak to and what was said and keep a file. Also as an account manager at cibc i was able to help a lot of my clients get through red tape by making the calls for them from my office. hope this helps.

As a former bank employee i would suggest sending these letters on a regular basis to the bank, particularly cibc. I was embarrassed to work there and not be able to explain why the student loan centre is so incompetent. Be sure to send to all of the top dogs-- I think we could eventually see results if there are enough letters-- especially those stressing they will never deal with cibc again until the level of service in that department improves drmatically

hi, i am 41 years old, i applied for student loan in 1997, and received a loan for the 3 years duration of business course i took here in north battleford, i received my diploma after 3 years of hard work and determination. i wanted to give up so many times but didn't. i was in bad car accident 2 weeks after graduation and took 2 years to reccover.

meanwhile my interest built up because i had to rely on social
assistance. i have 4 children too. i put out so many resumes and didn't get anywhere here, now i realize that i don't want to go into business. my goal now is social work. but anyways, there is so much competition here with younger people in administrative positions that i didn't stand a chance with my age and lack of work experience due to staying home and raising my kids. now i am about 23,000 in debt to student loans, i don't want to really work because i know that they will
take everything i make to pay for the interest that has piled up, i phoned them and offered to pay monthly, a minimum amount a month for the back interest and they vehemently replied that they required the full amount, ha, ha, what a laugh, if only i could, i would.

So now i rely on pta and i just keep on going to school, but this summer my school will be over and i am scared to try to work for fear of garnishing of my wages. There is no point if i am going to barely have enough to survive after the deductions, i just wish that i had some more information of
the future consequences of having a student loan. this makes me so depressed, sometimes i just want to let someone else take care of my kids and go alone so they won't have to go hungry. I can't believe that this what i went back to school for!!! whadda nightmare.........well that's my story, i hope they can change these policies soon because i'm tired of living like this, hiding from phone calls and receiving threatening letters.

geez, i will be 80 years old before i can even pay for most of this, oh well , maybe they can just take my pension and i can live off of some of children, eh?

I graduated in 1995, the year that supposedly had the highest default rate (maybe they fail to recall that the years 1992 - 1996 had the highest rates of youth unemployment; in any case the banks wouldn't take that figure into account).

I too had a CIBC loan. I have the same tales of lost paperwork, funds snatched from my account, incompetency, ensuing depression, etc. etc. I consider myself blessed that I haven't had collection agents hounding me (my final outstanding amount was less than $5K, which may also be a reason why). Although I'm not proud of defaulting on my student loan, I've had few headaches since getting out from under the CIBC back-monkey. However, I am one of the last to be able to do so since I was of the last crop of students
to have their student loans guaranteed.

This site has been of use to me, to see other's horror stories and the advice they've received, and so I've put this recent answering-machine message into perspective. My intention vis-a-vis the last outstanding amount has always been:

• to only pay off the principle, as reported on my credit report
• in one lump sum
• with a certified cheque or money order
• carbon-copied to the government, bank, credit agency and Equifax and TransUnion
• only when I have the full amount of money and some to spare, and/or need the credit!!!

So if I don't buy a house in the six/seven year waiting period, then I won't need to do so. I will do so only if I judge it seemly in comparison towards the other goals I am working towards (more school, marraige, children, retirement savings). I might even be able to do so later this year, but things do tend to come up...and I'm not talking Tahiti vacation.

Now, I do have other comments about the university experience vs. student loans.

When I enrolled in university, there was no information, or no information was supplied to me, about likelihood of finding a job (let alone a career) related to different fields of study. Yet, throughout high school, my teachers and guidance counsellors were really gung-ho on the sciences. It is easy to misinform impressionable young people, especially those who don't feel particularly strongly about what they want to be when they grow up.

Moreover, the Ontario education system in which I grew up was very oriented towards post-secondary education as being a matter of course for all but the most ungifted of students. But success isn't linked to picking the "right" field of study--it's linked to skills you learn either before university, or after, when you get into the real world (sorry, students, but that truism is true), beat the catch-22, and make a few mistakes along the way. Nothing beats good advice, but very little good advice is made available to high school students. That's their folks' job, and few enough have the wherewithall to help well, if at all. Unfortunately the students who perform the best at the whole university experience (including financial) are most
likely those who have the good advice of parents who are university graduates themselves--and those parents are probably still in the minority.

On to another point: NOTHING beats taking a year off before university, or else saving up every dime of summer job earnings, to pay for your first year or two of university without invoking student loans. I paid for my first year out-of-pocket, and holy cow did I ever do poorly--but if I had done what I ought to have done and dropped out to rethink my field of study, then I would not have been the worse off--unlike those students with loans.

In sum: don't consider a university education a priori to having a stable life. Those with huge student loans learn this too late. Those who don't have an education are often very proud of their bootstraps. Don't use university as an experiment to figure out what you want to do with your life. Get out there, talk to people, do odd jobs, research research research. Keep an open mind! (Far too many students and graduates are
cynical, and are 'trapped' by the cynical words and actions of others. The world isn't that bad.) Forgoing four years of income, even low income, is an investment even without the added debt. Can you really afford four years?

And lastly: those who threaten welfare really are losers, as the collection agent says. If you went to university, you ought to have the brains to think and research and leverage yourself out of a difficult situation. Welfare is a stop-gap of last resort, or for those not smart or brave enough to face facts and force a change in their situation.

Go to the bank, yours or another, and open up a $1000 credit-card-security account or GIC. The term will usually be three years (mine was). They will still check your credit record, but since you're putting security on the credit card equivalent to the credit, they cannot refuse you. Moreover, the card they give you will be basic, and so you won't pay a fee (shop around if need be--and don't open the security account at the bank until you've found your card. Consider credit unions, too). And the bonus is, the interest on your GIC/security account is yours to keep--just like the principle if you keep in good standing for three years.

This is a little-known trade-off. It doesn't have a price. And your problem will be solved.

Jane

I can honestly say that once you take out a student loan, it will be the worst mistake of your life. Trust me been there done that. In 1994 I took out a student loan and was still attending in 1997, when the University decided that some of the classes that I have already taken were not going to be given credits, then my faculty came out with a policy that
one had to complete 2500 hours of Human Service Work before even being considered into the Faculty of my choice. Bull sh*t Bull sh*t. Anyways after being totally p***** at this, I quit university all together and had to go back to the dead end jobs that I had been doing prior to going to the
university.

If that was not enough, trying to explain to the bank that held the student loan that I was not able to pay the $ 500.00 per month that they wanted, they turned to a collection agency named Nordon Collection Network, and this company should not even be in business the way that they treat people. This
collection agency has called all my neighbors and family members in efforts to get information as to where I work and what my assets are.

This is unreal, Mandy Dhillion the worker who was looking after my file even threatened my ten year old neice into telling them where I work because if she did not that auntie would go to jail for not paying her bills. They have been calling me at work on a daily basis and threatening me telling me that the car I drive will be gone when I get off work and that my bank
accounts will be seized and that they can have all my furniture seized and sold. I even filed a compalint with the Consumer Protection Branch of the Justice Department and nothing was done, Nordon Collection Agency denied that they were calling my relatives and even denied that they called me at work. This is so unjust. These collection agencies are so money hungry they will attempt anything to try and get people to pay even when they are not at all able to like in my case. They refused the $ 100.00 that I offered them, they said $ 500.00 or nothing so nothing is what they are now getting, I hope that they are very happy now in refusing the only amount that I was able pay.

I got to the point where I was scared to come into work and answer the telephone. I decided to file for bankruptcy just so they can leave me alone for the meantime, even though my student loans are not dischargeable for after ten years after leaving the university. This will be in 2008, but at least for the next nine months I will not be harassed and neither will my
family members. The bankruptcy has cost me $ 1500.00 to have the papers signed. I am struggling to pay the trustee and live on a day to day basis. I earn $1154.00 and my monthly bills are $ 1100.00. The collection agency lied and stated on my credit file that I was unable to locate, they knew all
along where I lived and worked because they were calling me at work on a daily basis and harassing me.I realize that I do owe the money but I do not feel that I and my family members need to be victimized.

Just wanted to release some stress regarding the student loan mistake. At least I am glad that there are others that are in the same situation as myself. I do not feel as alone now. Thanks

In 2000, I had a 12,000$ fed loan with CIBC and 30,000$ prov loan with Royal Bank (RBC). Then, for family reasons, I delayed my studies for 2 years and tried to get interest relief because of very low income. No success cause CIBC Student Loan Center never received my 1st application, and when it did
get the 2nd, no activation of interest relief was possible because of due interest averaging in the hundreds of $, as it has happened, I see, to many of you too. Meannwhile, RBC has always acknowledged my interest free eligibility period till this day! In last fall, after 2 years of being pursued by the Collectcorp collection agency on behalf of the CIBC Student National Loan Center, I was encouraged by a Royal Bank Manager to write directly to the bank's ombudsman to get the
message across about any persistant bank dept. misconduct. He/She would ultimately press for change if many of us had ressembling experiences. I was told this when trying to finance a new 2,000$ Royal Bank student loan in September of 2002, starting my full-time studies again. Fortunately, this RBC bank manager was empathetic to my story and agreed to cash in my loan application, knowing I have 2 years to go before I get my degree, assuring me a salary if 40-50 grand a year thereafter. Still, I had to promise I would write to the CIBC ombudsman in return, so I am, and this brief note for you guys to let you know you're not alone, struggling with CIBC.

Thankyou Royal Bank for giving me an other chance even though my almost perfect credit history has been demolished for the last 2 years. CIBC Student Loan Center and Collectcorp, what can I say?

Goodluck to all, I'll send feedback when I get some from the CIBC ombudsman, that you can also reach at Tel: 1 800 465-CALL (2255) or (416) 980-CALL (2255) in Toronto Fax 1 877 861-7801 or (416) 218-9440 in Toronto e-mail: customer.care@cibc.com mail: CIBC Customer Care, 5650 Yonge Street, 20th floor, North York, ON M2M 4G3.

Last year I was considering bankruptcy to clear my student loan of roughly $20,000. I called a bankruptcy lawyer and explained my situation. He told me that I didn't have to bother going bankrupt because since I hadn't made a single payment since 1991, the statute of limitations applies, and I'm off
the hook.

Just recently, however, a friend in a similar situation told me that CSL is now going after him. He has contacted several trustees and they have all told him the same thing: "the statute of limitations does not apply to Canada Student Loans".

Can you help me get to the truth on this matter?

Hi,

I graduated in May 1998, and started making payments on my loans 6 months later. In January of 2000, I was laid off temporarily from my job. I called the loan center, and they said, no problem, you can have interest relief. That part actually worked. However, when I was rehired in April, I called them to say that I no longer needed interest relief, and that the payments could begin to come out again. I had requested that the first payment be withdrawn on May 1. They tried to take the money out of my bank sometime during April, and it was not there, as I had yet to receive my first paycheque since returning to work. Then, the May 1 payment came out.

During the second week of May, 2000, I received a letter stating that I had missed my May payment. Naturally, I called to say that the payment had in fact come out of my bank as agreed. The woman said OK, don't worry about that letter. My June 1 payment came out just fine. Second week in June, I receive a letter stating that I had missed my June payment. So, I call again and say the same thing as the previous month. This time they tell me that the May withdrawal was to cover the 'supposed' missing April payment, and the June withdrawal was to cover the missing May payment. Again, they said that it could be taken care of on their end, and not to worry. I believe I worried anyway.

Now, the same thing happened in July, at which point, I was extremely disturbed, and called them to voice intense displeasure. I asked what I had to do to stop receiving these letters each month, and they told me to go into a branch, and make an extra payment. I asked why I wasn't told this before, and of course she said that it must have been somebody else I was talking to. DUH! I made the extra payment, but there is no way to get the 60, 90, and 120 days in arrears postings off of my credit rating. THEY WILL BE THERE UNTIL 2007!!!!! We are stuck renting until we can somehow save 25% for a downpayment.

What a great system, eh?


BRYAN

I also suggested talking to a bankruptcy trustee at BDO Dunwoody (they have branches across the country), the people at my branch have been wonderful and very understanding of current student loan issues. I live in a
relatively economically depressed city so consumer proposals are common for university graduates here -- no good jobs, no money to move to where the good jobs are and a totally botched student loan system...sigh...

Good luck!

You are not alone. And you do have rights. Click your mouse on the link at the top of the page -- all the answers are at Canada Student Debt: and if you don't find the answer, you have a forum to ask someone.

Hang in there! And talk to a bankruptcy trustee about a consumer
proposal....

I'll tell you a story when I'm less scarred...and terrified....and ulcer forming angry. Let's not even think about my problems with CIBC right now. I just wanted to share a thought inspired by this wonderful web-site.
I think that all the educated youth in Canada who are now being harassed about student loans should skip the country. Imagine the reprocussions! Millions of educated workers gone! Do you think the governement would treat us better in the future if suddenly they were left with only un-educated Canadians to run everything? You can bet they'd have to acknowledge and regret their current and past mistakes!

Does anyone else find it disheartening that the best advice all the credit councellors seem to be able to give is hide. I didn't know they could even suggest that. It must be pretty hopeless when the ones that are supposed to know the best way to handle it say run!

My husband and I currently have approximately $80,000 in combined student loan debt, incurred between 1991 and 1997. We are currently paying $630 per month, which covers my federal and provincial loans, and his provincial ones (he has a federal loan of $27,000 for which he is currently in default).

We have two children, ages 18 months and six years, and we have a monthly net income of $2400 per month. Our experiences with CIBC have been horrific - the staff we have dealt with have been abusive, incompetent, and apathetic. Here is s run-down of some of our worst experiences:

1) Between November 1997 and April 1999 we were on interest relief (my husband was still going to school and I was still working as a casual employee). My husband graduated in August 1999, and his loans came due the following February. I had just accepted a full-time position after several years of part-time and casual employment - I was making $38,000 a year, as the sole breadwinner in my family. I had been repaying my loans at a rate of $390 per month since the previous autumn. As my husband was still not working (it took in excess of six months for him to receive his teacher's license from the Nova Scotia Department of Education), he once again applied for interest relief. He was denied, based on my income - apparently, they base their entitlement eligibility guidelines on HOUSEHOLD INCOME (i.e. I should pay my husband's student loan payments), but do not factor in HOUSEHOLD STUDENT LOAN DEBT (i.e. they did not take into account that, out of my $38,000 a year income, student loan payments of close to $400 a month were already being taken out). At the time, his rate of loan repayment was $525 per month. If his individual loans were $915 per month and he earned
$38,000 a year he would qualify for interest relief - but they refused to factor in my student loans when calculating his rate of repayment, despite the fact that they were more than ready to factor in my income. With no alternative, his loan went into default.

2) Several months later, my husband had obtained his teacher's license and he began earning income. He tried to make arrangements to begin repaying his loans - he negotiated a rate of $270 per month for his provincial loans, and offered to pay $250 per month toward his federal. He was told that, because his federal loans were in default, they wanted $700 per month (in addition to the $270 a month he was already
paying, and the $390 per month that I was paying at that time). We tried to explain that, with a household income of less than $60,000 per year and a small child in daycare, we could not afford to pay close to $1400 per month in student loan payments. They refused to negotiate, saying they would take nothing less than $700 per month, and we were forced to allow the loan to remain in default.

3) Several more months went by, and I was contacted regarding a federal loan in the amount of approximately $25,000 on which I was in default. As I was in full repayment on both my loans at the time, I was baffled. They acknowledged that yes, I was repaying my provincial loans, and I was repaying one federal loan in the amount of $25,853, but I had not yet begun repaying my other federal loan of $25,853. I advised them that I only had one federal loan, but they informed me that if their computer said it was so, then it was so. I queried whether it did not seem a bit strange that I would have two federal loans in exactly the same amount (to the very cent), and they replied that no, it was not strange. I began a very frustrating month long journey of proving to
them that my federal loan had been counted twice - in the end it was established that one of their highly competent employees had entered the loan into their system twice. It was very scary realizing that (when they make a mistake) the onus is on us to prove a mistake was made.

4) Today, we received our statement of student loan interest for income tax purposes. We could cry - after three years of paying these peopole between $360 and $390 per month (depending upon interest rates), I owe them exactly $641 less than I did when I graduated. After two and a half years of paying $270 per month, my husband owes them close to $4000 more than he did when he graduated (since his federal loan is in default, it continues to accumulate interest, and the interest builds at a greater rate than the principal on his provincial loans decreases). We had a long hard look at our situation today - every month, over $600 goes out of our meagre $2400 per month income for student loans, but we
are no closer to paying them off. My god - we've paid them over $17,000 over the past several years, and we actually owe them more today than when we graduated.

Someone asked the question - if you could go back in time, and choose not go to university, would you? To that, we both answer a resounding yes. I was making $38,000 a year in a job that required a Grade 12 education. Now I make $55,000 a year in a job that requires a Grade 12 education. We look at the people we graduated high school with, who are making $12 or $15 an hour, and enjoying a higher standard of living than
we are. And I look at colleauges in the federal government who were hired with a high school diploma, only to be granted Education Leave to attend university (last year a friend of mine was given full tuition and books, plus 70% of her $48,000 salary, to go back to school and get an undergraduate degree).

And then, just when you think the government is becoming sensitive to the issue of massive student debt, just when they pass a Federal Budget with new progressive measures to address the problem, just when you think there might be hope - the rug is pulled out from under you again. I'm sure that some of you read with excitement this week's Federal
Budget announcement, regarding changes which permit individuals who are in default on their loans to apply for and qualify for interest relief, and changes which make it easier to qualify for debt reduction. But when you call for information on these programs, when you ask them who to contact, how to apply, how to access the eligibility criteria, etc, you are informed that they've never heard of that program - try calling
your bank. Its in the bloody budget, and HRDC has never heard of it. Very nice.

Perhaps the most tragic thing of all is when I look at my children, full of potential, and hate myself becuase the student debt burden that I am carrying prevents me from saving adequately for their educations. I have mortgaged not only my own future, but god forgive me I have mortaged theirs as well. We currently put a meagre $130 per month into an RESP for our children - which will cover approximately 40% of the
projected costs associated with attending a four year degree program by the time they graduate from high school. I noticed that many of you have children as well - how do you react to the cyclical nature of student debt repayment (i.e. that the heavy burden of your own debt repayment infringes upon your ability to save for your children's education). Talk about your 'cycle of poverty'!

Thanks for letting us vent.
Sinking in Debt in Prince Edward Island

Hi There! I am yet another individual who is getting harassed regarding a default on my student loan. Of course this is not what I wanted, however, none of us do. I graduated in 1996 from a course that has done nothing for me. When my student loan payments were due, I called student aid to see how they could best help me with a lower payment. The guy I talked to was ignorant and very gross worded. He told me that I had to pay 200.00 amonth. I told him that I had 3 children and was a single mom, working at Wendy's and on assistance and could not afford 200 dollars, however, I could manage 100 a month and pay extra if I had it. This was not good enough for him so I told him that I wouldn't pay anything. And I haven't. I have since been on assistance, which I came off of 8 months ago to work with a company making 9.50 an hour.

I recieved a letter from a collection agency in December (Total Credit Recovery), to which I replied by letter stating that I would make payment arrangements with them and for them to contact me through mail, to make these arrangements. Not to mention that I emailed them several times. Still no response........I ended up spending 2 days finding a toll free number that I could contact them through so that I could get this over with. The woman in charge of my account wanted the whole amount which is 10,000. Of course I laughed........who wouldn't? I told her that I could make a 60 dollar payment monthly. That wasn't good enough for her, as well as she informed me that she never recieved a letter or any email. She is sending me out a financial sheet to fill out which I am in doubt of doing after reading some of your stories.

I have come to find out that I now have a lien on my income tax and gst credit. I have 3 children and work my butt off trying to make ends meet, I have married and my husband was staying home with the children to cut down on babysitting expenses........so I have been supporting us all on a 9.50 hr job for the last 8 months, to which we were on assistance until then. Which has not been easy by any means. Why is it that any form of payment except for the whole amount is not good enough? And why would they put a lien on people who are below goverment living standards? I thought I was the only one going through this and I have been so worried and stressed out over this. II understand now that I am not the only one. I have been trying to get information on this for weeks and I just happen to come across your website which is GREAT!!

I want to know if there is anyway to get the lien taking off of me? (I live in nova scotia) Can they still do this even though I have been trying to make payment arrangements? I need that money, as most of us do to help with bills, clothing, food. I am so beside myself over this situation and the credit company treat people like their trash. It blows my mind to think that they can manipulate and put down people that way.
If anyone has information on liens and repayments or just some advice for me that would be so greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Where do I go from Here?

A website can be found at www.geocities.com/studentloanhell

Just a quick note to thank you for your work. It's a positive action for you to take the time and effort to serve people in this way. You also call it like you see it, and people need that kind of honesty.

Back in 99-00 I had a site on student debt, with about 15 of my own articles giving advice. I did it because there was nothing out there at the time except government bumpf, and because I have a finance writing background and recently found - by returning to school - how insane the student debt situation had become.

My site was debt101.com. You won't find it now, but at a future point it'll likely go back up. I'll keep you informed. It was non-profit and non-complimentary to the powers that be, so there was no government or corporate financing to be had. I couldn't keep it up indefinitely so I pulled it. But I have a book pending so I'll be in touch in half a year or so.

The more of us do these sorts of projects, the more pressure will build for the federal and provincial governments to build a fairer system.

Thanks again for your community service. I'll help to spread the word about your interesting site.

I was just reading some of the horror stories about student loans and I noticed a common thread in many of the stories: the CIBC National Student Loan Centre. The problem with this organization is that they have incompetent people answering the phones and handling your accounts. I remember one time when I was still in college when I had the form you get when you receive your student loan for the semester but have to complete and send CIBC the form so they can process it and put the money in your bank account. I can't remember what it is called but it is a long form with three attached copies. There is a section where you agree to pay back the loan you received, I think it's at the bottom. The form has three copies and you send two to CIBC Student Loan Centre and keep one carbon copy. I sent my signed form off to CIBC and waited the '3-5 business days' it take to receive the money. After about a week and half, and one week into the semester I called the loan centre and inquired when I was going to receive my money. (remember that I was already 'given' the loan, I just didn't receive the money yet). I was told that my form had not been received yet (even though I completed it at the bank with a teller and had them send it through business mail, I even got my copy stamped to prove that I had it sent through the bank). Two full weeks had passed and I call again, this time I was told that my form is "probably in the wrong pile".

5 days later I called again, and this time I was not as patient, but still polite. I was told that they have my form but I didn't sign the 'agreement to pay' portion at the bottom. I told them that was funny, considering that I have my carbon copy of the form in my hand with my signiture on it. "oh" was the response, to which I replied, "can I speak to your supervisor please?" I didn't ask for an explanation to how I could have a carbon copy of a signiture that is missing from the orginal copy, I just wanted the money so I could buy my overpriced school books. I told the supervisor that my money had better be in my account in two days, and it was.

So, these are the type of people who have access to your bank account. Keep that in mind folks and never, never, agree to an automatic payment plan, I have several horror stories about that!

I left Canada 8 years ago. At the time I had a NSF cheque, a credit card debt and a department store card debt. The total amount of the debt I owed was approximately 4000 dollars. Due to the fact that I had to leave the country at a certain date, I deposited 4000 dollars in my roommate's account. I suspect he might not have paid my debts because he would not answer my calls back. In any case, I understand that even if he did not pay my debts, I'm the only one responsible for this and I should face the consequences.

Could I have been "taken" to court? If so, should I still worry given that according to the statute of Limitations (I lived in Ontario) a time period of more than seven years has passed? Could there be any court decision pending against me? What is the best action for me now?

thanks in advance for your cooperation

Recently, I found this web site and have read the horror stories and a few days later I was living them. I am a registered nurse and my CIBC student loan was sent to NCO collections (these people are a nightmare), I was lied to, my account was completely cleared out even after I made arrangements for monthly repayment with them and I was constantly yelled at and verbally abused all in attempts to repay my loan. I didn't know where to turn, so I started investigating, first I called my bank CIBC who stated that they
couldn't do anything, then student loans CIBC, again nothing they could do, then I contacted the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services where I filed and submitted an online complaint against NCO, I called them in person and was told to contact NCO's ombudsman which I did, this man contacted the
manager who I was dealing with at NCO and ordered him to put my money back in my account because I had already arranged a payment plan with them.

Thank god I got the right contacts. I believe all collection agencies have ombudsmans so try calling them or file complaints with the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services.

What I'd really like to see is a topic specifically on the Statute of Limitations as it applies to CSL. I can't find any definitive answer on this anywhere!

Does the 6 year period apply or doesn't it?

What criteria are used: does it have to be written or a payment or is telephone contact enough?

How does HRDC's recent takeover of all CSL stuff affect those debts which were taken through banks?

I'm in a pickle & would love to know where I can get some straight info without paying a ton of cash to a lawyer to investigate.

Thanks, Kristina

hi

I had a bad experience about a student loan in Ontario first of all I wanted to upgrade because i only had grade 7 so I applied to go back to school but I had extreme difficulties learning because I also have a learning disability but the goverment was very quick on lending the money

i got very fustrated cause i couldnt learn that quickly so decided to try to get a job to repay this outstanding loan but was not successful i also have very bad knees i was operated on them but they cant cure my knees so i got a disability welfare now I cant repay them at all

My opinion is I think the goverment should screen students before lending them money if they cant handle school then they should find other sources to help them and not lend them thousands of dollars then put a knife in their backs I even owe money in another province

I tried to get a trade but couldnt handle it again im stuck paying it back but i cannot pay it now my credit rating is completly distroy

they should not be so leanient they should look up their history first then say no sorry you dont qualify and not right away give away money without blinking an eye

those are my opinions thanks for your time

Vicky

Our webmaster is organizing a boycott of the CIBC due to the mismanagement of our student loans. More information is available at that website, as well as answers to many questions that have been posted on this site.

Apparently, we may also finally be receiving some press regarding our problems. About bloody time...

Keep the faith!

Couch-dweller

Thanks
Mike

We left Canada in 1997, and now live down south in Fortress USA. I actually really like it here - that coming from a former raging anti-american NDP'er! Anyway, we were flat broke with two babies and tried to apply for interest relief until we could get back on our feet in the states. My husband is a nurse and makes good money now, but we were really poor just out of school. CIBC Student Centre (ohhh...I get to write "centre" instead of "center"!) told us that we weren't eligible for interest relief if we left Canada. Hmmm....no jobs at the time for a new nurse either! It was ludicrous. We wanted to pay; just asked for the 6 months to get it together. Writing this gives me post traumatic stress symptoms! Well, we stayed below the radar since there was no way we could pay anything then. And needless to say, we haven't been updating our address with HRDC!

I have been so mad at the Cdn government over this. We are taxed so heavily as it is. I truly believe if the gov't just paid our tuition it would be cheaper for them in the end. No CICB student center, no collection agencies, no debt write offs...People like us would flock back to Canada, or never leave in the first place.

In the end, I've been slowly paying my loans down through TCR. My husband has tried to negotiate but you all know the drill. He hasn't paid anything since 1997. He justifies that in his own way. We're still a single income family because even though we're in economic exile, I still have to beg the U.S. gov't to let me work here. Kind of a sick joke huh? So it would still be tough to pay down his loans (about $25,000) on the gov't's terms. TCR did threaten me with a lien on our house, however. I asked the guy for a copy of the statute. Never got one, so they don't have the info either I guess! Don't you find it scary that it's so hard to find information? We all have post-secondary educations and we're stumped. They didn't tell us that when we went to school did they?

The lesson: I will never ALLOW my children to take out student loans! I'll work three jobs if I have to. Just to save them from this hell.

Idea: A media campaign to educate the masses (loan consumers in particular) on the reality of life after student loans. Sort of like ADBUSTERS. It could work. Then the government would listen because its interest income would be slashed, universtiies would suffer, and Canada's brain trust would shrink. Oh my god...it gives me shivers thinking about that ad playing on CBC TV! Too funny.

I'm so glad I found this site. Thanks. Good luck out there.

I'd like to see a continuous update on the status of the Student Loan Bankruptcy Charter Challenge. Have tried the Canadian Federation of Students site but it's been off line since early April. And...would it do any good to contact local MP's re: this 'law'?

Thanks...love the site. At least I know I'm not alone.

hello, i am not writing with a story about student loans but with a couple questions.

i am currently working on a project that consists of a letter of concern to the government. the topic i have chosen is the cost of student loans and i have learned much by reading the stories on this site and now have a personal interest in this topic. my question are as follows:

• if you had the chance to go back in time and not go to university, if it met NO student loans, would you do it?
• are the debt (and harassment?) you are now facing worth the achievement of your education?

thank you, responses would be greatly apreciated. by the way, i think the creaters of this pg. are really cool. give it up for them

Glad to help. Here are some answers:

1. I have mixed feelings about this. I was recently divorced with a baby when I went back to school. Knowing my ex left me as sole breadwinner was my main motivation. However, I have an artsy brain that effortlessly gets fab marks in the humanities etc. -- all the programs that ensure that you'll live a life of poverty. When I started university in the mid-80s, everybody said, "It doesn't matter what you major in, as long as you have a degree!" Maybe that was true then -- now everybody has a degree. On top of that, I live in a small city with limited programs. In Toronto, say, I probably could have combined the humanities with something more job-worthy -- journalism or communications, for instance. That wasn't an option. I took English because I needed a degree and couldn't afford to move 1,000 miles away. Eventually, I figured, by the time I did my PhD, my son would be old enough & we could move somewhere to take the program. 10 years and $60,000 later, it didn't happen.

However, in the end, I'd have to say "no." I quit a job I hated in a bank to go to school. I ran into an ex coworker a couple of years ago. She -- and all the people I worked alongside -- was laid off. Made redundant. I'd be following the same path, only 10 years later.

2. Yeah, believe it or not. I am underpaid, and overstressed, but truer to myself because I went back to school. I confess I am an academic at heart. I love being culturally literate. When I look around my town and see nothing pickup trucks and foul-mouthed rednecks wearing mullets and smoke-infested bingo halls, I can escape in my mind, in a book or in a newspaper. And the job I have now I would have never acquired without my education. I'd probably still be working in some bank or some office and frustrated. And my 16-year-old son looks up to me and respects what I have accomplished. That's worth everything.

Okay, sorry about the convoluted answer! Give the girl a venue and she just doesn't shut up...

Good luck on your assignment. Say "hi" to the Minister of Colleges and Universities for me (ha!).

Couch-dweller.

I was happy to find your web site and to find out I am not the only one who has had problems with the Student Loan program. However, I still don't know what I can do about it. My loan is over 10 years old so I can declare bankruptcy, but I can not afford the payments. Also, my total loan was a little over $15,000 and I have already paid back over $14,000, but the collection agency says I still owe over $17,000.

How can I get this straightened out, who should I contact. By the sounds of the stories on your website, nothing can be done. One story said to lay low for 10 years.

Will they stop hounding me after a period of time? Please help.

Thanks, Michelle.

Greetings:

I have a student loan story from heck. The current version is very short. Since I am still in the thick of it, I do not have time to outline the tale of harrassment, theft and bureaucratic brilliance. I am spending Canada Day(irony?) weekend and most every other day juggling the writing of letters with coping to keep body and soul together - while moving forward in life.

Like many people out there, I look forward to the resource page, which I know will be a complex undertaking. It can't appear too soon.

I'll leave it at that for now; Ever the optimist, I'll close with an positive note: Keep up the good fight, fellow climbers, we'll reach the top of Everest in good time!

Sincerely,

sg from Winnipeg

Here I am again to say that I got a slight chuckle(equivalent to a belly laugh for those of us who are dealing with csd) from reading the vast body of statement under the heading 'good stories'. That's not all...wait for it...I intend to be the first to register there. I invite others to adopt that optimism because we know we deserve it! Keep up the spirits!

Cheers,

sg from Winnipeg

I'm writing again on this Canada Day(ironic) long weekend, now having read half of the long list of letters in the 'bad story' section. I have drafted a letter to CIBC administration after having my loans go into default due to inability to pay.

I am an over fifty person on social services disability. The complexity of these individual and collective situations prompts me to ask to hear from someone in Manitoba who has successfully(at least partially or temporarily) resolved their default situation - before I send my draft letter. If I could hear from someone else on disability that would be great. What many of us are lacking is clever strategy to match that of 'the other side'.

Please respond/pass on this e-mail to a few people who have related experience.

Thanks,

sg in Winnipeg

Dear Ms. Stewart:

Attached you will find copies of the letters sent to me by HRDC in regards to a debt, owed by me to the National Student Loan Service Centre. This debt was incurred as well as my other Student loan debt as part of my attempt to better myself and be able to make a living to support my family. This was going well until the National Student Loan Service Centre came into existence. Since I have been dealing with the NSLSC many things have happened, and at one point I even called your office for help and was given a supervisory number for someone that oversees the NSLSC, that was a waste of time, that person didn’t even understand the whole situation and couldn’t explain to me why my information was sent to the wrong address, in MANITOBA. They also couldn’t tell me why the rules for interest relief kept changing, what about the fact that it could take up to 6 months to process an interest relief application at which time another is due. How about faxing all of your information in (3 times) only to have the staff yell at you for not submitting it, subsequently you start yelling at the staff, get a supervisor and miraculously the next fax is received. The best one is when you send cheques out, after calling to find out how much you owe and the next thing you know you are in HRDC collections and no cheque has ever been cashed.

Ms. Stewart I owe $25,000.00 in student loans, this $3,000.00 is a drop in the bucket, because of the screw-ups at NSLSC I can’t even apply for interest relief on my federal loan, which is held at the bank. I have spoken to my bank and their student loan staff is fully aware of the shortcomings of the NSLSC, this staff has worked with me due to the fact that I cannot get interest relief for my federal loan and I am making manageable monthly payments as they have many in the same boat as me. I used to take this whole thing personally but in recent weeks I have been talking to many people in the student loan system that are having all of their federal loans thrown into collections because of the NSLSC, because their information and applications have been lost, or have been mailed to places unknown.

In closing I am letting you know that I am attaching 12 post-dated cheques for $20.00 each to cover the interest portion of this loan. I am also assuming that my income tax refund and GST will be taken, please know that being the only person working supporting a family of 6 that I will be applying due to hardship to have these decisions reversed. I also am fully aware that my credit will take a beating but the NSLSC already took care of that. It is a shame that those of us that try to better ourselves get caught in the beaurocratic nightmare of a department that does not know what it is doing and subsequently realize that maybe we were better off living off of the system. Either that or become members of the political establishment where our $500,000.00 errors can be swept under the rug, and golden parachute pensions will prevail.

Sincerely,

I have successfully completed two degrees (BA '94, BEd '99) and had to take student loans for both. After completing my first degree in 94, the job market was dreadful. During my schooling, I worked part time in retail to make ends meet (I was not given a full Student Loan because of this - I thank my lucky stars for that now!). After I graduated, I kept the same job but increased my hours to full time. I worked this job
for five years. I lived in an apartment during this time which I shared with four other people. This is the only way I was able to make student loan payments during this time. I struggled for years, but was able get a substantial portion of my load paid off. So, with only $700.00 left on my loan, I decided to go
back to school to earn my BEd. During my BEd, I continued to work full time (in retail) and took only evening courses. This added a another year onto a two year program since the required courses are not always offered when you need them. During this time, I took another Student Loan to pay tuition and other university related costs. But I still paid for all my
"cost of living" expenses out of my own pocket. Thus, when I graduated in '99, I was only about $15, 000 in debt, which is not bad for two university degrees. So I am thinking that I played the game pretty good....WRONG!

After graduation, I really felt to need to travel and see more of the world. I accepted a position to teach at a private school in Mexico. Knowing that my student loan was due for payment, (I had been through it once already and didn't want to ruin the good record that I had with my previous loan. So, I marched straight down to the local CIBC, set up a checking account and put enough money in my account to make payments on my student loan until Christmas (when I knew that I would
be back to Canada for a visit and could replenish the account for the second half of the year). When I came home for Xmas I checked my account and everything looked fine. I put enough money into my account to pay until August knowing that I would be returning at the end of July.

When I returned home in July, my nightmare officially began. My former roommates had collected my mail for me, and when I picked it up, I saw that there was a very official looking envelope from CIBC. I opened it to find a very threatening letter about how I was past due on my account and that I must immediately pay the full amount of my loan, totaling 15,000 or the Federal Government would take action (even though I was paying for a year, none of my money had even put a dent in the principal - just the interest).

I called immediately and spoke to the "lady" who was handling my account and she told me that I was four months past due. I told her that I would investigate with my bank and get to her asap. Remember that this is my first day back in Canada ...blah!

So, when I get to the bank and get a print out of my account, I am distraught to discover that CIBC SLC took DOUBLE payments out of my account for 3 consecutive months!!!! They completely drained my account so there was nothing left. Thus, the last four months I was in Mexico, when they tried to take my payments there was nothing to take.

I called the lady back and explained my situation. She seemed less then sympathetic to my situation. But did check it out for me. When she got back to me, she did confirm that double payments where taken out of my account for Jan, Feb and March. But she said that since my account was in arrears for fours months, that was the real problem. But, getting angry at this point, I said that they caused the problem so they
should fix it. I probably would have gotten more of a response if I was talking to the wall. She told me that the only way I could get my account in good standing again was to go to the bank immediately and get my account caught up. This would cost me approx. $750.00. Luckily for me (or so I thought) I had received a contract bonus from the private school I
was teaching at and was able to do this. So, I made arrangements to do so. The very next day, I went down and made the payments in cash. I called her three days later to make sure she had received the payments. She assured me that she did. So, off I go thinking that everything was hunky dory and that I was a good little Doo Bee. Yeah me!

Flash forward to October. I receive a message to call CIBC as soon as possible. When I call back, I am informed that a portion on my loan has been transferred to the Federal Government and they are requesting payment in full or they will sue me. Well, I freaked!!!! I had been diligently paying my SL since the whole fiasco in the summer. I tell him the whole
story, and he tells me that he sees the payments, but the lady who I dealt with back then, never filed the paperwork and my loan was sent to collections. Of course, she no longer worked there.

At this point, I was seriously pissed off! I called this particular CIBC Representative everyday for two weeks to work it out! He was rude, mean and very aggressive. I requested to speak to a manager (by this time I was dealing with the collections branch of SL called Collect Corp (THE WORST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD). I simply couldn't't get anywhere with them. So, I
couldn't't take it anymore and just stopped trying. They told me that my credit was already ruined, so I couldn't't understand what I was fighting for. So, I simply gave up and tried to hide from them. Not a good idea. They harassed me constantly. Finally I couldn't't take it anymore and agreed to pay separate monthly payments to Collect Corp. (luckily by this time - I had a "decent" job - but times where still
tuff). So, for the next year, I paid over $300 a month to my student loans (the portion that wasn't transferred and another 155.00 to Collect Corp.) During this time they continued to harass me. They said although the monthly payments were being applied to my balance, they wanted the full payment.
Impossible. I continued to make monthly payments and told them to kiss my A$$. Finally, I couldn't take the harassment anymore (they were really horrible)and cashed in an RRSP I was contributing too (trying to plan for the future) and two months ago I paid if off in total. Happiest day of all. I struggled to get a letter from them saying that my loan was paid in full. But finally was successful.

So happy ending you say? Not so fast! Just this Saturday, I receive a call from SL saying that I need to pay off 700.00 in interest. I told me I didn't know what they were talking about since I had missed a payment on my loan in about 3 years. The CIBC rep tells me that "way back when" (but couldn't tell me when) I had been granted "Interest Deferral" and that
the interest was now due. I told him that I never requested it and received not letter stating that I had ever been granted it. It was clear that he had not a clue what he was talking about. So, once again I find myself in a Student Loan quagmire!!! For all of you out there who are sweating it out because you are not able to make your payments. Take solace in the fact that they harass the people who DO pay just as
bad as those that DON'T!!!!! Oh, the insanity of it all....

Good Luck to you all...You'll need it!!!

I have a CIBC bank account and a student loan through CIBC. January 2003 I cashed my (well however you call the process where the money is deposited into your account via a void cheque) student loan into my CIBC bank account.

In June I got a letter saying that since my grace period was nearly over – what the hell? – I would enter repayment July 31. Ok, June 23 I called them – they said “oh, if you have a copy of your schedule 22A (proving my end of study date was June 30 2003) take it into any local branch of your bank before July 1. (I went to Athabasca U, got my full degree but they have six month semesters by way of explanation).

So June 24 I took my copy of Schedule 22A to the local CIBC. They made a copy and would send it out in the morning. June 26 (I’m sure you’ll be laughing your hinies off by now) I went and wrote my final exam. Degree, complete about a week later! Letter of graduation coming in mail shortly.

July 1 I got another letter with a consolidation agreement. Of course it had my CIBC bank information. . .but oh they ‘forgot’ I had deposited a student loan there in January. You know, the one attached to my Schedule 22A, a copy of which is sitting on my desk as you read this.

I phone CIBC. Well, it’s past the deadline, nothing we can do, screw you. The usual. I phone back again. They’ll launch an investigation to see if the bank still has my schedule 22A.

What do you think?

Screw you. You never went into the bank. If you did they would have stamped it if they gave you a copy of it back. They didn’t stamp it? You were never there. It’s too late to take your banking information off our file. July 31 we are going to start taking money out of your account.

Kinda rivals the guy (or gal) who was headed out for convocation when the collection agency called.

Well, I’ve started a letter and fax-writing campaign including, as per their own paperwork, written withdrawl of authorization for them to use my banking information. We all know they will anyway. So I opened an account in the same bank my husband’s joint account with me is located – not any of the Student Loan lending banks either. When they pull the money, or try to, and it bounces, and I go to close the account and they tell me I have to pay the ‘overdrawn amount’ first, the fight will really be on but at least I will have an account elsewhere if they begin to try screwing with my credit report.

It really stinks, like one person, that “The biggest mistake I made was going to university in Canada.”

Yvonne (Alberta)

I have been on interest relief since I left University 3 years ago I have been earning pretty much the same salary for the last 3 years. This March I received a letter from CIBC stating that I was not eligible for interest relief based on my earnings for the month of January. In January I received 3 pay cheques, I explained to CIBC that I get paid bi-weekly and it just so happened that in the month of January I received 3 pay cheques but I received them every two weeks. The answer was too bad you need to start paying back the loan.

I sent a letter to HRDC to appeal that was also rejected. Furthermore the letter that was sent back to me from HRDC seemed to be a standard letter their response back to me was "you are not eligible for intrest relief based on your earnings for the month of January."

Then I sent a letter to the Minister Jane Stewart and again I received a response in June saying they are looking into the situation and will get back in contact with me. Guess what I'm still waiting.........

I have now contacted my local MP John McKay and although a nice gentlemen named Cornell has been trying to assist in the situation nothing has happened except my loan is now with two collection agencies. One 1 owe $24,000 which is the balance of my loan and the 2nd I owe $1346 to CIBC for non payment of my loan when I was taken off of intrest relief. Now I tried to work with CIBC they told me in April 2003 if I paid $275 I could be put back on intrest relief so I begged and I borrowed from friends and came up with $275 I paid 10 days too late and I owed an additional $140 that I could not come up with so today I am in a situation where I will never receive another income tax cheque, GST, or child tax credit. I will never be able to buy a car or own a house I am a single parent of one child and my loans Ontario and Canada out weight my salary. I am so depressed because of the situation I am in but it's nice to know I am not alone.

Marsha

Resources and a Forum:
http://www.canadastudentdebt.ca