WOULD-BE-
GOODS

Let’s start with “The Camera Loves Me”, alright? I understand that The Monochrome Set were the band behind the scenes on that, right?

Right - although they’re not credited on the album.

Can you describe working with the M Set, how you translated your ideas to them and how well they performed for you?

I was terribly excited to be working with the Monochrome Set (they were my favourite band in the early 1980s) and probably rather shy and overawed as a result. I’d met them a few times but didn’t know them at all well (apart from Nick Wesolowski, their drummer at the time and court photographer for el).We rehearsed together a few times, after they’d listened to some very basic demo tapes of most of the songs ‘Cecil Beaton’s Scrapbook’ was written in the pub in our rehearsal lunch break because we thought the album would be too short with the songs we had).

Mike wanted Keith West (who had had a hit in the 1960s called something like ‘Excerpt from a Teenage Opera’), to produce the album and we were rather resistant to some of his ideas. We played some rather childish

practical jokes on him, but he was a good sport and I deeply regret our infantile behaviour now.

The arrangements of the songs were pretty straightforward - everyone was involved in deciding how the songs should be played. I don’t remember any real conflicts of opinion. There was only one song that didn’t turn out the way I wanted it to - ‘Marvellous Boy’, which the Monochrome Set didn’t like, and sulked about having to perform. We do a much better version of it live these days.

How much of “The Camera...” was dictated by Mike Alway’s personal musings?  From what I’ve been told those later el years were fabricated bands under the direction of Alway. Now, is that so with WBGs or does the concept belong solely to you?

Unfortunately some people think we were one of those fabricated bands and Mike doesn’t go out of his way to dispel that impression.  I don’t know how you define a fabricated band, but I don’t feel that’s an accurate description of the Would-be-goods, although it may be true of other el bands. I chose the band name myself (after an Edwardian children’s novel by Edith Nesbit) and our image was merely an exaggeration of what I was - or what Mike thought I was. I did several interviews with the British music press at the time, and they went to town on the whole upper-class thing.

(It was all a lot of nonsense, of course.) I wrote all the sleeve notes and had a hand in designing the record sleeves and supplying some of the artwork from old books of mine.

Mike wasn’t the Svengali figure people think he was, at least as far as I was concerned. He always treated me as an equal and sought my opinion on a lot of things. He suggested some of the song titles for ‘The Camera Loves Me’, as I know he did with some of the other el artists. (Like many bands, including the Monochrome Set, Mike ‘borrowed’ these titles from books, films, etc.). But Mike had absolutely no input in any of the Song-writing or in determining what the songs should be about. He came to the studio a couple of times, but that was after most of the recording had been done.

“Fruit Paradise” and “Hanging Gardens of Reigate” is attributed to Simon Turner and Lloyd-Tucker. Was it, in some ways, difficult to take WBGs in your own direction after that, because it seems to me (although Alway is one of my personal Gods) that there may have been an element of patriarchy there?

Well, the music business has more than its fair share of male chauvinists and the independent scene is no exception. Maybe that’s why people have accepted so readily this idea that Mike Alway was pulling all the strings.But as I’ve said before, Mike treated me as an equal and there was nothing patriarchal about his attitude to me. I had (and have) a lot of respect for him but never allowed him to dictate to me in any way.

I sometimes wish that I’d recorded ‘Fruit Paradise’ under a different name, because I don’t see that it’s related very closely to the rest of the Would-be-goods’ oeuvre.

Reading your interview in Chickfactor you relate the story about meeting Alway and the relationship that continued through the Blanco y Negro days to the creation of el records and beyond. Do you think Mike had a crush on you? Sorry if I’m getting way too personal.

I went out with Mike for about six months, from when he was still Cherry Red’s A&R man until he started Blanco y Negro (with Geoff Travis et al). We continued to be good friends until just after the recording of ‘Mondo’.

I think Simon Turner had suggested that he knows where the Derek Jarman film of the el acts are. Have you heard anything about the release of those?

No. If they are ever released, I may have to emigrate. (Actually, I Only sang backing vocals on one song.)

Eventually a Japanese magazine named “The Camera Loves Me” as one of the best pop records or something. Can you tell me anything about that? Does that surprise you?

I’ve never seen the magazine in question, so I don’t know exactly what they said. ‘The Camera Loves Me’ doesn’t sound like too many other records and its naive charm must have struck a chord somewhere.

I’ve not heard much of “Mondo” but have heard mixed reactions. When did that record come out and what have been some of the reports on that one?

‘Mondo’ came out in Japan (on the Trattoria label) in 1993 and wasn’t released elsewhere until a couple of years ago. Once again the

Monochrome Set stepped in as my backing band (with a slightly different line-up) and Bid produced it. I’ve read a few things on the Internet from people who would have liked ‘Mondo’ to sound more like ‘The Camera Loves Me’, but I’ve never actually seen a review of it. It sounds as if you know more than I do about this!

I’ve talked to Le Grand Magistery’s Matt Jacobson in the past. He’s been planning this el tribute album for many many years now. I assume you’ve heard some other versions of WBG songs. What is your opinion of those songs and the idea of this tribute album? Why do think it’s taking so long to finish?

I’ve heard five Would-be-goods covers from that album. I think it’s only a worthwhile exercise when the bands take liberties with the original songs and make them their own. The Silly Pillows wrote an extra verse to ‘Velasquez and I’ which fitted seamlessly onto the original and changed the tempo completely, and Comet Gain did a disco version of ‘Pinstriped  Rebels’. A tribute album seems like a good idea since el has had a surprising amount of influence for such an obscure and eccentric label. I don’t know why it’s taking so long to come out.

I know I’m dwelling on the old days too much but its just that they had such a profound effect on my life. Do you tire of people continually asking about the original material and el records? Do you wish people would just focus on the present?

No, I’m very happy to talk about the el days, although I wasn’t part of the el scene and didn’t see anything of the other el artists after ‘Fruit Paradise’ came out. But I get annoyed when people who weren’t there at the time talk a lot of rubbish about it. I’ve even read some inaccurate  comments from some of the other el artists (who never met me) about the Would-be-goods.
Our third album came out last month and I must say that I prefer the reviews of it by people who don’t know (or don’t care) about el and Mike Alway, but just concentrate on what we’re doing now.

What exactly is a “pinstriped rebel”? I’ve been using that moniker to describe myself, which is terribly pretentious, I know, but that’s the point. I should now like to ask permission to call myself “the last of the pinstriped rebels”, which I’ve been doing (in tribute) for years.
This seemed sealed in fate when “Brief Lives” was released on my birthday!

I found the title of that song in the Financial Times (I had to read it when I worked in the City for a couple of years as a Japanese fund manager). I’m afraid I can’t remember what the original article was about. The lyrics were loosely inspired by an ex-boyfriend of mine who went into the City after I knew him at Oxford University and turned into the archetypal ‘80s ‘yuppie’. As you may know, pinstriped suits are the traditional uniform of the City gent, together with bowler hat and black umbrella.
Of course you may call yourself ‘the last of the pinstriped rebels’ - I appreciate the gesture.

Why did it take so long to release “Brief Lives”? The Chickfactor interview states that in Sept. ‘99 you were putting the finishing touches on it.

We spent a very long time talking to a record label who were keen to release it but we couldn’t come to an agreement and eventually we decided to go with Matinee and Fortuna Pop.

What do think about descriptions like “fey”, “twee”, “sophisto-pop” or “’Brief Lives’” is everything that is sorely missing in the world of pop music today” (from the Matinee press release)?

Peter (Momtchiloff) tells me that the words ‘fey’ and ‘twee’ aren’t pejorative terms when applied to pop music. To me, they suggest breathy high-pitched vocals, naivete and prettiness. I don’t sing like that and I don’t aim to write pretty songs. Although I am a (disappointed) romantic and tend to lapse into nostalgia for a time that probably never existed, some of my songs are quite cynical and satirical. I’m uncomfortable with ‘sophisticated’, too, which makes me think of those girls in the Human League with too much blusher. I’m inspired by many different things but I read a great deal and some of what I read gets into my songs, so I suppose the subject matter and references are sometimes unusual for pop music.
People always want to categorise, to say which bands one reminds them of, which movement one belongs to. I don’t think we are easy to categorise.

Among the participants on the new record is Orson Presence, a name from  the Monochrome Set and, I believe, Scarlet’s Well, etc. Can you tell me about Orson and why you chose him to play on the album?

We knew almost as soon as we decided to record the songs that we would require the services of Orson Presence. He is a shy and retiring soul but we managed to persuade him into the studio. He is a brilliant improviser and can play almost any instrument in almost any style.

Also, one of the major contributors is Peter Momtchiloff (ex-Talulah Gosh, Heavenly, Marine Research). How did this relationship begin?

Peter wrote to me as an admirer of the Would-be-goods after Matthew Jacobson gave him my address. We wrote postcards to each other for a while and eventually met up. We soon started to talk about recording some songs together and that encouraged me to write even more songs.....

Is Peter a permanant fixture in WBGs or are there any fixtures in WBGs? What does he bring to the WBGs sound?

Yes, barring fire, floods or acts of God, Peter is a permanent member of the Would-be-goods (I have my fingers crossed just in case). He contributes some very fine guitar playing, the wonderful song ‘Vivre sa vie’ and brutal honesty.

According to the press release your mother plays on the record too. That’s wonderful. What does your mother listen to? Is she an influence in your musical tastes?

My poor mother was almost incapacitated by nerves when she recorded her violin and mandolin parts - it was her first time in the recording studio.

She is a painter, but has always loved music. She listened mostly to classical music (Bach, Ravel, Debussy, and some English composers -  Benjamin Britten, Vaughan Williams, Peter Warlock, William Walton) when I was growing up. I used to think her taste in pop music was pretty terrible but it has stood the test of time better than mine. She has always been slightly nonplussed by the Would-be-goods but on the whole I think she approves.

By the way, what happened to your sister? To what extent was she involved in the original record?

My sister still lives in London (as I do) but isn’t involved in music. She lived with me when we made ‘The Camera Loves Me’ and contributed to the lyrics on some of the songs. (She also appears with me on the album cover).
The original plan was that she would sing on the album but, like my mother, she got terribly nervous in the studio and so didn’t do much more than a few backing vocals. She has always been very encouraging and supportive of the Would-be-goods.

Do you play live? How are the shows received?

We’ve done a few shows - all in London, so far - since last April (2001). We haven’t had any hecklers or missiles yet.

How influential do you feel WBGs have been and who do you think have been influenced?

I don’t think I can answer your first question, as I rather lost touch with what was happening in music after the el days, and am only just starting to catch up. I read an interview with Kahimi Karie in which she says ‘The Camera Loves Me’ is among her all-time top ten favourite records, and she did a cover version of ‘Fruit Paradise’, but I don’t detect a strong influence (although Momus said he wrote some songs for her in the style of the Would-be-goods). Girlfrendo have said that their early records are influenced by the el girl sound, but again I couldn’t tell.

How would you like to be remembered, say, in 50 years?

As an endearingly dotty old lady.

Tell me something about the labels you’re with now.

Jimmy Tassos (Matinee) and Sean Price (Fortuna Pop) understand exactly what we’re trying to do, like it and just let us get on with it. What more could we ask for?

END.