Has anybody ever converted a 1G Talon to a 1G Eclipse?
Has anybody ever converted a 1G Talon to a 1G Eclipse? |
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This is possible, at least for 1990-1991 models. You need to swap the front garnish (between the headlights) and change the Chrysler rear clip for the Mitsubishi one. However, the Mitsu parts will go exactly where the Chrysler parts were without any need for modification.
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Has anybody ever put a 1G Talon spoiler on a Laser? |
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Yes, it can be done. Digest writers recommend that the spoiler come from a like-styled car - a 90-91 Talon spoiler for 90-91 Lasers, and a 92-94 Talon spoiler for a 92-94 Laser. Cross-body conversions may also be possible, but you must verify that the spoiler will fit before drilling holes into your car. Information on this subject is limited - Laser owners often prefer their car without the spoiler, so it doesn't appear that this is a popular conversion.
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Has anybody ever converted their popup headlights to non-popup headlights? |
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This can be done too, but it is a significant amount of trouble. It appears that most people purchased the front end they wanted with their car, as information on this modification is limited.
According to Paul Bratina:
"The following parts must be replaced: hood, fenders, headlights, side marker lights. The front bumper can be kept (as in my case) but must be slightly modified. Replacing the bumper with a 92-94 makes the conversion easier. Replacing the hood is strictly bolt-on. The fenders are bolt-on except for where they attach at the very front (easily accommodated). Mounting the headlights (and to a lesser extent, the side marker lights) is by far the hardest part of the conversion, and is definitely not a bolt-on procedure. I certainly wouldn't consider it technically difficult. Mostly just time consuming.
I think it's worth mentioning a little bit about the costs involved in the conversion. First, assuming you get all the parts necessary at the wreckers, the parts alone would run somewhere in the $500-$1000 area. (Of course, some of this cost could be recovered with the sale of your old parts.) Then you have the issue of repainting the car. Unless one is interested in a multi-coloured car (all the various body parts that were necessarily replaced), I consider repainting the car to be absolutely mandatory. So whatever the paint job costs, could theoretically be added to the cost of the conversion. In my case, I was going to be repainting the car anyway, so that cost didn't "count". I really feel the thought process on this conversion should be something like: "I'm going to get the car repainted and while I'm at it, I'll throw in a conversion." Not the other way around--you know, do a conversion and throw in a paint job."
A quick & dirty method for keeping the headlights down is to remove the fuse that controls the headlight motors, or to rewire them under manual control. This keeps the lights down when they are on, and thus is sort of a 'non-popup' mod.
The Last Word:: George Johnson adds:
"I looked for what I believed to be a good amount of time for the popup to non-popup conversion wiring schematic. I apparently failed to find it, so I figured you might like to add it into the answer to the swap.
Popup Non-popup
Solid Red Solid Red
Red w/Blue Stripe Red w/Blue Stripe
Red w/White Stripe Black
Turn signal/running light assemblies will interchange." [Thanks, George!]
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Most people who research this topic come to the conclusion that it is cheaper to sell the NT and purchase a turbocharged DSM, rather than attempt to convert the NT to turbocharged form. Read all about it here and here. It has been pointed out that the difference between a turbo FWD and a non-turbo FWD 1G DSM was roughly $1000 in 1998 - suffice it to say that the conversion will be significantly more than that, regardless of the method chosen.
Weapon*R has a bolt-on turbo kit for NT 2G DSMs. The cost was $4500 last time anybody bothered to price it. At one time, Extreme Motorsports offered a similar kit that ran for only $3500, and included a 14B turbo, BOV, fuel pump, sidemount intercooler, exhaust manifold, downpipe, MBC and boost gauge in one bolt-on kit. More recently, Hahn Racecraft has taken up the challenge with their bolt-on 2G kits costing between $2500 and $3500. Note that these kits will not make your NT into a factory-turbo DSM; since the compression ratios are still different, the boost ranges are greatly restricted compared to OEM turbo engines.
Some people have had better luck converting 1.8L DSMs to 2.0L (non-turbo) engines. Apparantly these engines are rather similar, and since there are no turbo/non-turbo issues the conversion is fairly easy - 'fairly' being of course a very subjective term. At the very least, the head and camshafts will need to be changed from SOHC to DOHC.
Note that the above details only change a non-turbo to a non-turbo. A 1.8L to turbo conversion is likely to be at least as difficult as a 2.0 NT to turbo conversion, if not more so, since most of the above changes would have to be made prior to starting the turbo conversion.
Some owners might think that performing an engine "swap" rather than a "conversion" would make things easier. This is not so. The engine control units (ECUs) for the NT and T engines are different, as are the engine/ECU wiring harnesses. Therefore, to properly swap in a turbo engine into a non-turbo chassis, the ECU and wiring harness must be replaced with the turbo versions.
Additionally, an engine swap by itself is no trivial task, especially if the replacement engine requires work prior to installation. The FWD and AWD flywheels are different, and there may be other differences that prevent a turbo motor from matching up to a non-turbo chassis or driveline. While it is theoretically possible, most people would not find it worth the effort.
Owners of 'converted' non-turbos may find the insurance to be less than a factory turbo car. This is not a guarantee, however, especially if the insurance company learns about the conversion.
Those seriously interested in this conversion will find the article "Do It Yourself Turbocharging" from Overboost.com to be an interesting read.
The Last Word: Are you crazy? With AWD DSMs running in the $5,000 area, why the hell would you want to do this? Do yourself a favor and just buy it.
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Has anybody ever converted an auto tranny [DSM] to a manual tranny [DSM]? What is required to convert an auto tranny [DSM] to a manual tranny [DSM]? |
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Micheal Hamilton has done this on an unspecified 1G FWD. Read his VFAQ for a list of parts, tools and procedures to follow. Even with the VFAQ, it is complex procedure requiring an estimated at 9 hours, install only, plus additional time or cost for removing/acquiring the required transplant parts.
In addition to Micheal's work, you may read the differences between auto and manual DSMs for an idea of what you may need in addition to the transmission components.
The Last Word: Same as above: DSMs are cheap. Just buy what you want.
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Most people who research this topic come to the conclusion that it is cheaper to sell the FWD and purchase an AWD DSM, rather than attempt to convert the FWD to AWD form. Road Race Engineering has done this; the cost is $6000. Read all about it here and here.
The Last Word:: Are you crazy? With AWD DSMs running in the $5,000 area, why the hell would you want to do this? Do yourself a favor and just buy the AWD.
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Yes. Dave Buschur had what was perhaps the first-ever RWD DSM back in 1998. To do it, he rotated the engine ninety degrees in the engine bay and adapted it to a Powerglide racing transmission. For more details see Dave Buschur's biography.
While it is possible to do this type of conversion, the difficulty level is (to put it mildly) very high.
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Not so far. This modification is not likely to be popular, since the 2G engine is more expensive than a 1G engine. Also, it has other characteristics (such as a smaller stock turbocharger) that may make it unattractive to 1G owners.
Anyone wishing to attempt this swap should be warned that it is not trivial. Although many of the mechanical attachments will work correctly, some 2G engine sensors operate differently than 1G sensors, making it virtually impossible to use without an ECU and wiring swap as well.
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Has anybody ever installed a 2G transmission on a 1G? |
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Yes, Greg Clayton successfully did so, as did Jeff Hanko (95 to 91 AWD) and Brad Degrazia (96 to 92 AWD).
More and more DSMers seem to be seriously considering this swap as worthwhile. For details, read Greg's post, Jeff's post and Brad's post.
This information was added by Randy Gonzalez in August of 2000:
"ONE: If you have a 1990 or even a 1991 with a 22 spline transfer case, then you will need to swap the xfer case as well. This is just so that the xfer case will be able to mate with the 23 spline output shaft of the 2g tranny.
TWO: When you drill holes in the dust shield to mount the starter, this CAN be done with the flywheel/clutch disk/pressure plate intact. On the VERY TOP starter hole in the dust-shield (hole that is higher above the ground), drill downwards towards the other bolt. On the hole in the dust-shield that is lower to the ground, drill upwards towards the higher hole. It is very simple, this can be done with even a file if you wanted to.
THREE: the shifter cables mount to the tranny via shift cable giudes. The information given is kinda foggy. In short, just make the guides look identical to your 1g tranny. Do this by whatever means necessary. I just grabbed a pair of pliers and bent the guides until they looked decent enough to install. It didnt' look all great or anything, BUT it shifts great now. I think that is all that really needs to be mentioned to better the information already given to the archives... And to let DSMers know, the 2g tranny is such a BIG upgrade over my 91 tranny. It used to be SO damn notchy all the time no matter how well you pampered it into gear. Now with the 2g tranny, all the shifts are as smooth as a knife through butter. I haven't track tested it yet but I am sure it will hold to my expectations. I didn't cut off the ballast weight. Mainly because I figured that if Mitsu put it there, then it had to serve some sort of function other than to slow down shifts. If that IS the only reason, then my loss. but I just rather be on the safe side on this one; plus, I never hear about 2g DSMers cutting it off their tranny. So why should I? Hope this helps someone in the future of those that are pondering whether to do the install or not."
The Last Word: Watch out for crankwalk!
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Has anybody ever installed 2G pistons in a 1G engine? Has anybody ever installed 1G NT pistons in a 1G T engine? |
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This has been done on occasion. 2G turbo pistons are a higher compression ratio (8.5:1 instead of 7.8:1) and are capable of delivering more power, with a higher probability of detonation. The same should be true of 1G NT pistons (9.0:1), but the NT pistons are not designed to withstand the stresses inherent in turbocharging, making the 2G turbo pistons the next best choice.
In most cases, the 1G connecting rods must be machined in order to fit the 2G pistons. Some details on this can be found in this post by Mario Pennycooke and this one by Kyle Zingg.
As a side note, Mitsubishi sells factory overbore pistons in sizes 0.5mm and 1.0mm larger than stock. Ben France gives the details here.
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All 1G 2.0L heads are the same except for the camshafts. Apparantly the 1990 heads had slightly smaller coolant passages, but the difference is not enough to be significant. Also, prepared non-turbo heads had a plug where the turbo oil feed would connect on turbo models.
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Has anybody ever installed a 2G MAS on a 1G? |
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You would already know this (hint, hint) if you had looked at the FAQ Locator. Alexander Shikhmuradov, Lowell Foo, and John Christou (among others) have done this, and helpfully provided instructions to Eric Porter, who made this Mini How-To page of how to do the wiring. The full VFAQ is here, courtesy of Dallace Marable.
The reasons for doing this are threefold:
Doing this swap generally requires some type of fuel management computer, as the 2G MAS is not a drop-in replacement for the 1G MAS. However, Keith McDonnell reported that the 2G MAS will operate almost perfectly with the stock 1G computer when larger 550 cc injectors are also fitted. The bigger injectors add more fuel to offset the additional 'uncounted' air flowing through the larger MAS. Keith was experimenting on a Galant VR-4, , which could possibly behave slightly differently than other DSMs, but his results were confirmed second-hand by Dallace Marable. For more details, read his Keith's post here.
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Has anybody ever installed 2G brakes on a 1G? |
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According to Tom Stangl and Kyle Zingg, who wrote the Big Brake VFAQ, 2G front brakes will fit the 1Gs in the same manner as the 1993-1994 brakes fit the earlier cars.
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Has anybody ever installed a 2G exhaust manifold on a 1G? |
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You would already know this (hint, hint) if you'd checked the FAQ Locator.
2G manifolds are a bolt-on replacement for the 1G manifolds. 2G manifolds are larger than 1G manifolds, are easier to port, and are more resistant to cracking and warping. Those who do this changeover might have to grind away a small part of the 2G manifold to clear the 1G engine parts.
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Jason Neal had this done with his car, buying a 1990 engine to put into his 1997 FWD. Details on how he did it can be read here.
Changing the 2G cylinder head for the 1G version has also been done. Road Race Engineering has done this swap to a few cars. Besides checking out their web site article, read Mike's archive post on the subject, and his subsequent follow-up post. Josh Rivel also successfully did this swap, although it took a lot of tuning to get the engine operating correctly. Also, Todd Hayashi posted a list of potential gotchas while doing this conversion, and Nathan Crisman described a changeover kit he once had for sale here. Unfortunately, he never had a chance to use it.
Finally, there is an excellent photo gallery walk-though of installing a 1G head onto a 2G here, courtesy of Shawn Gradek. The photography on this site is worth any download time you may encounter.
Those who are seriously interested in this type of changeover must read the archives on the subject to obtain the latest information.
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Has anybody ever installed 1G pistons in a 2G engine? Has anybody ever installed 2G NT pistons in a 2G T engine? |
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So far no one has done this swap. The change is not attractive since 2G turbo pistons have a higher compression ratio (8.5:1) than stock 1G turbo pistons (7.8:1), meaning the 1G pistons will produce less power.
2G NT pistons, despite their higher compression ratio, are not generally considered suitable for a swap into a turbo engine because they were never designed to handle the stresses of turbocharged engines. This is the same argument that keeps people from swapping 1G NT pistons into 1G T engines.
Also, since 1G rods must be modified to accept 2G pistons, it is safe to assume that 2G rods would either have to be modified to accept 1G pistons, or replaced with 1G rods, making any such swap that much more complicated.
Anyone interested in such changeovers should know that Mitsubishi sells factory overbore pistons in sizes 0.5mm and 1.0mm larger than stock. Ben France gives the detailshere.
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Not many people have done this change, since it for appearance only. Canadian DSMers are more likely to find it attractive, since the Eclipse is not sold in Canada.
According to Micheal Wong, you will need the following parts to convert a 1995-96 Talon exterior to a 1997 Eclipse exterior:
This list is likely not comprehensive.
Morgan D'Antonio did this swap on his 1995 Talon, using 1997 Eclipse parts. The details of this swap are in this file as post #12.
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A few people have done it. The "best" method involves finding a manual rack, which is difficult to do for DSM cars.
Apparantly most people who run into problems with the power steering end up with a modified power steering pump from a vendor. The pump provides improved steering response where the stock system is lacking.
Information about the general procedure of converting power to manual steering can be found here.
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Has anybody ever converted their automatic seatbelts to manual (Canadian) seatbelts? |
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Yes. You would already know this (hint, hint) if you looked at the FAQ Locator, or the archives. Tom Stangl has a VFAQ on this subject. Go there now.
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Has anybody ever converted their U.S. spec (75 amp) alternator to a Canadian spec. (90 amp) alternator? |
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This is possible, and the Canadian part is a direct bolt-on. Some dealerships may get confused over what you are asking for, however. You may be able to get around this by ordering a Galant VR-4 alternator instead - it is also 90A and will bolt right on.
There are some indications in the archives that the 90 amp alternator is the same as the 75 amp U.S. stock alternator, except it is rated for 90A. (Read about this here.) Wes Grueninger asserts that the two alternators are, in fact, different, with the 90A having an extra output tap attached to the wye terminal in the diode rectifier pack. In any case, the 90A alternator has a rated minimum output of 50A, with a 90A typical output rating. Even Canadian DSMers complain that the alternator on the car is undersized.
Read this post by Gary Selph for a description of possible alternator replacement options, including the Mitsubishi part number for the Canadian alternator. Also read Dean's Daily Discussions #8 for a little encouragement on how simple the replacement process should be.
For auto owners, Kyle Zingg posted that the alternator for the auto cars has a different part number, at least for 1Gs. The part number for the 1G auto alternator is MD153843. Manual owners have the same alternator on both the turbo and 2.0L non-turbo engines. It has also been reported that 1G and 2G alternators are the same aside from the actual output plug, which can be swapped.
It has been reported that Mitsu alternators rotate in the opposite direction of most alternators, making aftermarket units problematic. Read about this here. For this reason it is possible that aftermarket parts may not ventilate correctly, leading to premature failure.
With the creation of at least two Canadian sub-regional chapters of Club DSM, those who find themselves in a bind may be able to work a deal with a Canadian DSMer to provide a Canadian alternator. Owing to logistical difficulties, currency exchange and the possibility of taxes and/or duty on the imported part, this should be considered as a last-resort option.
As a companion to this question, you will likely want to read the Battery FAQ, and the dead battery question in this file.
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This is a relatively easy swap since the engines in the cars are the same. The manual turbo is almost a bolt-on replacement for the automatic transmission TD04.
According to Kevin Watson, the oil and coolant lines are larger on the manual TD05 turbo. Also, the exhaust manifold is different and needs to be changed to a manual transmission manifold.
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DSM transmissions come in two types with different output shafts. 1990 and some 1991 cars have 22-spline output shafts. Later 1991 through 1994 cars have 23-spline output shafts. Please note that 1991 cars that are 'later' (i.e. have later production or serial numbers) may still have the 22-spline shaft. The best way to check is to look, or to check part numbers with a dealership.
The number of splines on the transmission output shaft must match the number of splines on the transfer case input shaft, or else the transmission will not fit. Some people have found it possible to swap shafts between the transmissions in question to match the parts up correctly. Alternatively, the transfer case can also be changed to match up with the transmission, with an associated greater cost.
There have been several syncro changes over the years to try and combat problems with 1G cars not shifting well. It is generally accepted that later transmissions have superior syncro designs, so if all other things are equal a later version may be superior to an earlier version. Also, 2G transmissions can be put onto 1Gs with some simple modifications, and can provide superior performance. However, most people do not have free choice of transmissions due to economic reasons.
It must also be noted that the manual transmissions from turbo FWD and non-turbo FWD cars are different. Non-turbo FWD 1Gs have a F5M22 transmission (manual) or F4A22 transmission (automatic). Non-turbo 2Gs have a F5MC1 transmission (manual) or F4AC1 transmission (automatic). Turbo FWD 1Gs and 2Gs have a F5M33 transmission (manual) or F4A33 transmission (automatic). These transmissions are not interchangeable, and they are geared differently.
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1G and 2G alternators have been reported to be the same aside from the actual output plug, which can apparantly be swapped. The information is unconfirmed so this experiment is best done with junkyard parts first.
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Maintained by Sean Costall. Changes and suggestions are welcomed! If you have any information on the answers to any of these questions or wish additional questions, please mail me.
This page is an extension of Club DSM .